Official Backup QB bitching thread

[Guiness]

Randall is a starter at safety now and sounds content.

https://www.ohio.com/akron/sports/browns/safety-damarious-randall-says-browns-showed-they-have-dominant-defense

I don't know how Randall compares to the Packer depth in secondary. On face of it, Browns got the best of the deal. Maybe Kiser will yet beat out out Hundley.

If Kizer ends up 2nd string you improve what many believe is the 2nd most important position on the team, making it a good trade. Baffled why the Browns gave up on him after 1 year, during which he started 15 games for them...unless they see Randall as a #1 CB.

[Bretsky]

If Kizer ends up 2nd string you improve what many believe is the 2nd most important position on the team, making it a good trade. Baffled why the Browns gave up on him after 1 year, during which he started 15 games for them...unless they see Randall as a #1 CB.

or if Kizer becomes 2nd string, perhaps partly because we overvalue him and dealt for him, and shows no better than Hundley, we got screwed as well.

Frankly I'd have rather taken a 3rd or 4th round draft pick from the Browns instead of Kizer

But I don't think it was an option. I think they wanted to dump Kizer.

[Pugger]

based on what? him being a half year older?

he already had over 2 full seasons in the system before taking over the starter duties. even fat mike said he was ready, and he was very blah

i think we saw his ceiling last year, and it wasn't good enough

now kizer didn't lite up the world last year, but it was his first year in a very shitty system. who knows what he can do. we haven't seen his best yet. imo

I wish we could see Kizer play with more starters this Friday instead of Hundley. We all know what we have in Hundley.

[Harlan Huckleby]

or if Kizer becomes 2nd string, perhaps partly because we overvalue him and dealt for him, and shows no better than Hundley, we got screwed as well.

The brass seems more dug-in on the Hundley project. I say the worst case scenario is that they keep Hundley and also use a roster spot on Kiser - stubbornly refusing to cut any losses.

BTW, I don't think the decision to trade Randall for Kiser was dumb. Neither player was a sure thing by any stretch. Both may have warn out the patience of their coaching staffs. I just was making point that *so far* things have worked out better for Browns. It will take a couple years to know. (Or a couple weeks if Kiser gets cut.)

[pbmax]

I am of two minds re: Hundley.

red is correct that McCarthy backed him (and Callahan) as ready. "I love our room" is another entry into meaningless coaching platitudes. But M3 also declared him not ready after the season (or near the end) and he blamed the coaches for not having him ready (it wasn't an obvious throwing of other people under the bus, but it could have been read that way - I think Edgar Bennett and Alex Van Pelt might read it that way).

If true, you might think Hundley almost has to improve. But the preseason has been maybe 10-15% better than last year and he is playing versus lesser talent. He has no pocket awareness still.

To me, that looks like his ceiling in McCarthy's offense. McCarthy isn't going to change the offense to be all read option and isolate someone against easy coverage. He made a couple of plays that not many QBs can make, roll out to escape pressure and make a deep or difficult throw. But M3 doesn't want to change the offense to that.

So the next option is Kizer who a little more accurate and has some pocket awareness. He's also a higher level prospect and only one year in. Its makes sense to keep him and see what happens.

But with either starting next year, I don't see many wins. And that is a failure of the front office.

[Teamcheez1]

But with either starting next year, I don't see many wins?
I can't think of any back-up QB's that would produce many wins for the vast majority of NFL teams. If they're that good, they would already be a starter somewhere.

I already know what Hundley can do and don't see him getting much better. If Kizer performs the same in preseason as Hundley, you keep Kizer - better arm, more pocket awareness, better upside. Back-up QB's are just that, back-ups. I just feel Kizer could become something more now that he is out from under the Browns.

[texaspackerbacker]

What I saw was that Hundley made those plays (roll out to escape pressure and make a deep or difficult throw) similar to what Aaron Rodgers is forced to make all the time. Of course, he doesn't have the arm that Rodgers has - nobody does. And of course, he wasn't as polished on some plays as he was on some good ones. The bottom line, though, is he just ain't as bad as so many in here rag on him about - and he has looked better than Kizer while playing earlier in the game, which presumably means against less scrubby competition.

As for "pocket awareness", how can you have that when your O Line practically never even gives you a pocket? The constant (and stupid) whine about Aaron Rodgers not getting rid of the ball quick enough is related to that also. Most of the time, about a second and a half after the snap, he is running for his life due to shitty O Line blocking.

[Harlan Huckleby]

But with Either starting next year, I don't see many wins?
I can't think of any back-up QB's that would produce many wins for the vast majority of NFL teams. If they're that good, they would already be a starter somewhere.

It's hard to find the stats, but I think your impression is wrong. This article says that on average, one NFL team makes the playoffs every year riding a backup QB

http://www.footballperspective.com/making-the-playoffs-with-a-backup-qb/

I think the thing to do is pull some stats out of my ass. I bet a backup QB has about a 25% chance of winning a game on average. And I bet there is high variability. Wish I had some non rectal stats.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Backup QB matters. Hundley is a bad backup. The Packers are not gonna give Kiser a shot to compete for the job, they've decided on Hundley.

We're fucked.

[texaspackerbacker]

Why do you say that? They're giving them about equal playing time, just Hundley first, Kizer second. That's normal - IMO - start with the incumbent, then give a fair shot to the new guy.

Back up QB SOMETIMES matters. When Zeke Bratkowski came in for Bart Starr, the Packers were loaded enough to win with him. When ANYBODY comes in for Rodgers, the Packers are gonna struggle because they just aren't all that loaded other than Aaron Rodgers. So it's hard to say a back up matters under that circumstance.

And I still say, from the small sample I've seen, I'd take Hundley over Kizer.

[Harlan Huckleby]

start with the incumbent, then give a fair shot to the new guy.

Hundley did not prove last year that he deserved to be the "incumbent." He proved he needed to be replaced, and probably should be cut or considered a camp body this year. Giving all the reps with the starting unit to Hundley is not giving a fair shot to the new guy. But that said, maybe Kiser has looked significantly worse than Hundley in practice.

I'd take Hundley over Kizer.

I can't say I've seen enough to have a strong opinion either way, even if I give a slight edge to Kiser. You could be right. But that doesn't mean the team has done a good job with the backup QB position. Hundley is not very good. You want a backup who has the tools to become a starter someday, or at least a vet in the Doug Peterson mold - steady if physically limited.

[Harlan Huckleby]

When ANYBODY comes in for Rodgers, the Packers are gonna struggle because they just aren't all that loaded other than Aaron Rodgers. So it's hard to say a back up matters under that circumstance.

So you think the Vikings and Eagles flourished with backups last year because their overall talent is far superior to the Packers?

I think the Packers should be able to win 2 out of 5 games with a decent backup. Or they stink anyway.

Even if the Packers rely on Rodgers to have a chance of advancing in the playoffs, you still might need a backup who can win a game or two in the regular season just to get you in the playoffs. The backup matters a lot to the Packers. You are burying your head in the sand.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Here's a writer moving in Kizer's Korner today:

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2018/8/18/17753546/packers-preseason-opinion-deshone-kizer-brett-hundley-backup-qb-race-competition

[Guiness]

Wish I had some non rectal stats.

Backup QB matters. Hundley is a bad backup. The Packers are not gonna give Kiser a shot to compete for the job, they've decided on Hundley.

We're fucked.

Is your second statement related to your first or is in rectally based?

[Guiness]

What I saw was that Hundley made those plays (roll out to escape pressure and make a deep or difficult throw) similar to what Aaron Rodgers is forced to make all the time.

Ok, you and Partial both allude to Hundley's good play, you've convinced me to go back and watch the series he played. I really don't recall much but the sack he took from the right side and the tuck and run plays.