Resolved: The Problem With The Packer Offense Is

[pbmax]

Aaron Rodgers.

Not that he has lost his considerable skills. But that those skills; physical, mental, recall, persuasiveness and public stature mean his imprint on the offense is immense.

And that imprint favors longer pass plays, extended time in pocket and out, and favoring players and matchups rather than the specific call on given plays.

This is not to say Rodgers is throwing the game, but his belief in the extended deep play offense, which was other worldly for several years in this decade, are no longer supported by the players on offense and the defenses those players face.

Rodgers hasn't gone full turncoat and is operating honestly in response to the offensive downturn. You can see that is the number of plays the running backs are involved with plus his advocacy for Jones to touch the ball more.

But I think this is the only explanation that covers his recent disagreement with McCarthy over not getting the ball to Adams more, even though he had 14 targets. McCarthy still shares some blame, but he has altered the offense, they are using more short passes and slants but the resistance seems to be led by his QB.

The near interception on the MVS comeback route, I think the one that Rodgers gave MVS some grief about, shows part of the disconnect. Rodgers wanted that player for whatever reason, but McCarthy had actually stacked WR on the offenses left and got Davante Adams free for a slant pass that was headed for a wide open middle of the field. Rodgers never looked at the stack. He was focused, I believe, on the one on one matchup.

[pbmax]

That MVS pass with a schemed open Adams is on Twitter somewhere in the All-22 form. If you can find it, please link to it.

[texaspackerbacker]

How ridiculous can people get? Without Aaron Rodgers, the Packers would be at or very near the bottom of the NFL - that's the mess Ted left us talent-wise.

If there is a problem - and it's questionable that there even is, it's not trusting Rodgers enough to just go out and do what needs to be done. Occasionally, like the Bears game, circumstances and/or hyper-caution put the team in such a deep hole that they unleash him. When that happens, great things occur.

I'm not blaming McCarthy too much for "playing not to lose", because if you play not to lose, most of the time you win. The passing game, though, is the key to success for the Packers, and by necessity - meaning a shitty O Line - scrambling by the QB makes that possible. People, therefore, should cut the damn whining about Rodgers taking time to throw - he's better than anybody in the history of the NFL in general, but in particular at avoiding interceptions.

Postpone this poll 5 or 10 years until we don't have Aaron Rodgers any more, and then people can really ask what's wrong - and it will be dead obvious, and there won't be a solution unless or until the next all-world QB comes our way.

[mraynrand]

That MVS pass with a schemed open Adams is on Twitter somewhere in the All-22 form. If you can find it, please link to it.

I can get in on NFL game pass, but I'm not sure how to post it. I still haven't figured out my new video software. Also checking on copyright stuff - I can't afford to get busted...

But anyway, Adams was lined up behind another receiver, came open for a quick pass and for no good reason, Rodgers threw to a covered Exxon Valdez Scantron. For a guy who wanted to get Adams more targets, he shoulda thrown to him right there.

[mraynrand]

How ridiculous can people get....

Unfortunately, your post doesn't really address the question.

[texaspackerbacker]

Unfortunately, your post doesn't really address the question.

You better look again at that question: whether or not Aaron Rodgers "is the problem". Sheeeesh!

Unleash him to throw the ball down the field, rein in this stupid short passing game, and for the longer term, get some decent O Line personnel.

[mraynrand]

You better look again at that question: whether or not Aaron Rodgers "is the problem". Sheeeesh!

Unleash him to throw the ball down the field, rein in this stupid short passing game, and for the longer term, get some decent O Line personnel.

I saw the line block well for him last week - and other weeks as well. So I don't think that's a serious problem. Not the best line, but decent.

I think you disagree about the TD-checkdown philosophy, but your view contradicts your own view of the O-line. If the O-line is so terrible, going for the long ball and relying on extended protection is entirely the wrong strategy, especially with a less mobile QB.

The issue is whether there are problems with Rodgers that are (helping to) stagnate the offense. I would say so, but probably due to his injury/reduced accuracy. His bizarre comment about Adams not getting enough targets suggests maybe some frustration about not getting big plays and TDs out of Adams. But Rodgers clearly missed Adams on a fourth down going to MVS instead - which was almost a pick six. Rodgers is off, and it's affecting the offense. Of course, no one is saying they'd be better with, god forbid, Kizer in there, but there is a problem there, specifically with Rodgers.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah, lower expectations enough and the O Line might seem barely adequate. They actually did decent pass blocking maybe 3 or 4 times in the Bills game.

And yeah, as you say, if you don't have a mobile QB, poor O Line blocking prevents throwing it down the field - but we DO have a mobile QB. Rodgers at 60-70% is still better than just about anybody else - and that anybody else can't throw anything close to his accuracy and judgment.

As for that silly "controversy", that's just the sports world's version of fake news media trying to stir up trouble. Rodgers vs. McCarthy/Brady vs. Belichek/etc., that's just bullshit designed to get some people sucked in to their commentary.

Yeah, Rodgers got away with a bad mistake on the MVS near interception (although it almost certainly was MVS's fault and he will learn from the mistake). Nobody's perfect, although the guy we have playing QB is about as close to it as anybody in the history of the NFL. I would even agree that his accuracy has been only maybe about 97% of his normal excellence since the leg injury. Labeling Rodgers "the problem", though, is just plain stupid!

[mraynrand]

Yeah, lower expectations enough and the O Line might seem barely adequate. They actually did decent pass blocking maybe 3 or 4 times in the Bills game.

And yeah, as you say, if you don't have a mobile QB, poor O Line blocking prevents throwing it down the field - but we DO have a mobile QB. Rodgers at 60-70% is still better than just about anybody else - and that anybody else can't throw anything close to his accuracy and judgment.

As for that silly "controversy", that's just the sports world's version of fake news media trying to stir up trouble. Rodgers vs. McCarthy/Brady vs. Belichek/etc., that's just bullshit designed to get some people sucked in to their commentary.

Yeah, Rodgers got away with a bad mistake on the MVS near interception (although it almost certainly was MVS's fault and he will learn from the mistake). Nobody's perfect, although the guy we have playing QB is about as close to it as anybody in the history of the NFL. I would even agree that his accuracy has been only maybe about 97% of his normal excellence since the leg injury. Labeling Rodgers "the problem", though, is just plain stupid!

This isn't convincing. The O-line blocked for almost 150 yards of rushing and gave up 2 sacks. Buffalo held MN to 16 yards rushing the week before at MN and gave up less than 300 yards passing on 40 completions. This to an offense that lit up the Packers D. So the Packer O-line is perfectly adequate. The run success should be a great help to the passing game, yet they struggled. Rodgers missed guys and missed plays, for whatever reason. Again, no one wants another QB, no one denies that Rodgers is pretty frickin' awesome, but some of the evidence points to him being a problem right now in the offense humming along.

I think the general problem is of comfort level and being happy/patient and taking what the defenses give them. A death of a thousand cuts is the way to go as the standard, even while you can still take your shots. Jut don't go TD-checkdown every play (or the bulk of plays).

[pbmax]

You better look again at that question: whether or not Aaron Rodgers "is the problem". Sheeeesh!

Unleash him to throw the ball down the field, rein in this stupid short passing game, and for the longer term, get some decent O Line personnel.

You just gave an example of an "unleashed" Rodgers in the Bears game. The Bears offense was all quick throws with very little time dilly dallying in the pocket. This post presumes the preference against this kind of offense you are calling unleashed stems from Rodgers preference. Not McCarthy's.

To be fair, in response to the offensive downturn, McCarthy has called a LOT more behind the LOS passes. Many of those patterns, I think, are useless. Especially given the frequency of the call and the lack of making a defense pay for scheming against them. That, I believe, is on McCarthy.

[pbmax]

[denverYooper]

Seeing the clip, it looks like one of those plays where Rodgers thinks there is DPI and chucks it that way as a way of pointing it out.

I agree with your larger point about Rodgers, though.

[Freak Out]

I can get in on NFL game pass, but I'm not sure how to post it. I still haven't figured out my new video software. Also checking on copyright stuff - I can't afford to get busted...

But anyway, Adams was lined up behind another receiver, came open for a quick pass and for no good reason, Rodgers threw to a covered Exxon Valdez Scantron. For a guy who wanted to get Adams more targets, he shoulda thrown to him right there.

We just need to call him Hazelwood.

[Smidgeon]

Decent article on why M3 says the offense has been subpar:

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/10/06/silverstein-mike-mccarthy-talks-packers-offense-aaron-rodgers-relationship/1538586002/

[Rutnstrut]

Aaron Rodgers.

Not that he has lost his considerable skills. But that those skills; physical, mental, recall, persuasiveness and public stature mean his imprint on the offense is immense.

And that imprint favors longer pass plays, extended time in pocket and out, and favoring players and matchups rather than the specific call on given plays.

This is not to say Rodgers is throwing the game, but his belief in the extended deep play offense, which was other worldly for several years in this decade, are no longer supported by the players on offense and the defenses those players face.

Rodgers hasn't gone full turncoat and is operating honestly in response to the offensive downturn. You can see that is the number of plays the running backs are involved with plus his advocacy for Jones to touch the ball more.

But I think this is the only explanation that covers his recent disagreement with McCarthy over not getting the ball to Adams more, even though he had 14 targets. McCarthy still shares some blame, but he has altered the offense, they are using more short passes and slants but the resistance seems to be led by his QB.

The near interception on the MVS comeback route, I think the one that Rodgers gave MVS some grief about, shows part of the disconnect. Rodgers wanted that player for whatever reason, but McCarthy had actually stacked WR on the offenses left and got Davante Adams free for a slant pass that was headed for a wide open middle of the field. Rodgers never looked at the stack. He was focused, I believe, on the one on one matchup.

Wouldn't this argument also support that scheme or stubby's lack of it for the players he has is the problem?