The Linebackers (watch them in rewind at your own risk)

[mraynrand]

You can get Justin Tuck in the third. Its not impossible, but the Packers track record suggests its not going to happen on the D line or LB.

Sure, but like Wist said, they missed. And it looks like they missed on Randall, Rollins, Jones, and Spriggs. With Shields' concussions that's five guys who should be starters. And then they wold have used J'xander and Jackson picks on pass rushers. With TT gone, and not trying vicariously draft his HOF son at LB anymore, the Packers might have a chance.

[Rutnstrut]

It all boils down to the Packers draft philosophy. Which is, fuck it pick anyone, we've got Rodgers.

[run pMc]

I think Burks is new-ish to the LB position -- he started as a Safety...so there might be some finer points he's not picked up. He had a rep for trouble shedding blocks and in the run game, and I think he'll get better. He's the best athlete they have at ILB (I'm not counting Josh Jones) so you almost have to play him. Antonio Morrison can stuff a RB, but he can't cover a back or TE. Burks is a much faster, more fluid athlete, and opposing teams have feasted on ILB mismatches so much they play Whitehead as a LB/S.

He may not turn out to be any good (I hope he pans out), but I think it's too early. Wist -- your watching him is worthwhile -- it will be interesting to see if he's better by end of season or start of next season.

[wist43]

I think Burks is new-ish to the LB position -- he started as a Safety...so there might be some finer points he's not picked up. He had a rep for trouble shedding blocks and in the run game, and I think he'll get better. He's the best athlete they have at ILB (I'm not counting Josh Jones) so you almost have to play him. Antonio Morrison can stuff a RB, but he can't cover a back or TE. Burks is a much faster, more fluid athlete, and opposing teams have feasted on ILB mismatches so much they play Whitehead as a LB/S.

He may not turn out to be any good (I hope he pans out), but I think it's too early. Wist -- your watching him is worthwhile -- it will be interesting to see if he's better by end of season or start of next season.

He takes bad angles - consistently. That's a big red flag. He did the same things in college... based on what I saw of his college tape, he shouldn't have been drafted at all, let alone the 3rd round.

Go back to the point in the game where the SF FB fumbled, can't remember where it was. Watch Burks on that play.

[run pMc]

He takes bad angles - consistently. That's a big red flag. He did the same things in college... based on what I saw of his college tape, he shouldn't have been drafted at all, let alone the 3rd round.

Go back to the point in the game where the SF FB fumbled, can't remember where it was. Watch Burks on that play.

I'll have to watch that again. That is a concern, although it can be coached.
SF's RBs are relative blazers -- both were timed in the 4.4's. Nick Collins occasionally took some pretty atrocious angles, especially during his first 3 seasons.
I suppose I'm making excuses for him, but that's only because I wouldn't give up on him just yet. He has a chance to get better. The question is whether "better" is good enough. They don't have much for playmakers at LB (ILB or OLB), let alone "above average".

[run pMc]

This position needs a complete overhaul.

I mostly agree with this. I think Clay is decent but overpaid at this point. Same on Perry. Those guys are on their 2nd contracts and have been hurt/beat up from going up against 320lb T's. Fackrell is a ST guy, Gilbert is depth. That's all they got outside. Finding another quality pass rusher (or two) at OLB would make a big difference, regardless of who the DC is.

ILB is less of a concern for me because they could plug a safety in there in a pinch, or play one ILB there and go nickel (ostensibly the modern NFL's base defense). They've drafted Burks, Martinez, and Ryan there, and while none have been lights out, Martinez is the best of them and he's serviceable. I'd consider him a step up from JAG - he's better than AJ Hawk, not quite on the level of a Desmond Bishop or Nick Barnett.

Drafting all those corners, missing on Biegel, Fackrell, etc., has cost them, and they'll have to spend some draft capital (and certainly cap space).

With this being Clay's last season on his contract, do you bring him back? If so, what do you offer him? Would you move him inside?

[3irty1]

Inside linebacker and halfback are two positions where rookies who are going to be good seem to be pretty decent right away. Nobody really learns instincts or vision. We'll see plenty more Burks simply because the Packers have to piss with the cock they've got but he's probably a turd.

I don't have a problem with Martinez. If he's your best that's not good but if he's your worst then you're doing great. Same with Perry. If Clay can man that other inside spot and go from liability to a net positive, we may just be looking for a single edge rusher to make a decent starting lineup. The depth is ready for a turnover for sure.

[Fritz]

Inside linebacker and halfback are two positions where rookies who are going to be good seem to be pretty decent right away. Nobody really learns instincts or vision. We'll see plenty more Burks simply because the Packers have to piss with the cock they've got but he's probably a turd.

I don't have a problem with Martinez. If he's your best that's not good but if he's your worst then you're doing great. Same with Perry. If Clay can man that other inside spot and go from liability to a net positive, we may just be looking for a single edge rusher to make a decent starting lineup. The depth is ready for a turnover for sure.

3irty, you're generally an intelligent poster, and I enjoy your analysis, but this mixed metaphor made me laugh. If they have to piss with the cock they have, wouldn't Burks be, perhaps, a tiny little wiener (if you're seeing him as Wist would) or as a massive dong?

[3irty1]

3irty, you're generally an intelligent poster, and I enjoy your analysis, but this mixed metaphor made me laugh. If they have to piss with the cock they have, wouldn't Burks be, perhaps, a tiny little wiener (if you're seeing him as Wist would) or as a massive dong?

Well I had typed "cheese covered aardvark-looking bastard jammed with kidney stones" but this is a family forum.

[gbgary]

Was rewinding back thru the 49er game and watching Burks and Martinez. Can't say enough bad things about these guys.

Burks in particular... he's so bad, I'm not sure it's even worth it to try and get him up to speed. He has no aptitude for the game of football, let alone instincts to play linebacker. He is, hands down, one of the worst football players I've ever seen.

At 1:20 of the 3rd quarter, he shoots in clean and runs right past the ball as if he didn't know he was supposed to do something about it, lol... he's habitually in poor position to take on blocks or break down, he plays upright and stiff, he takes such bad angles it's beyond baffling... seriously, what the fuck is he doing out there??

He's so bad and lacking in instincts, that I don't think he has a chance.

Martinez is at best a JAG. Congratulations Blake - you're Green Bay's best LB.

This position needs a complete overhaul.

i think that's what they'll do in the draft and free agency in the off-season.

[gbgary]

The problem is how do you overhaul a position without ignoring other areas of need? I don't think those two are as awful as you say, but I can get on board with the idea that the OLB's need a big overhaul - but how? Do you draft two in a row in the first two rounds like GB did with the corners in 2015, and hope it works out better? Do you try to trade for a known commodity at risk of acquiring a player with a shorter shelf life?

Hard to make this stuff all work. But I am intrigued as to whether the Cards would trade Chandler Jones, and if so, what the price would be.

a Mackish deal since he set the market i think. maybe a tad less but i wouldn't count on it.

[gbgary]

the Packers have to piss with the cock they've got but he's probably a turd.

lol

too soon but his college tape wasn't great by any means.

[pbmax]

Alright, that tears it. I am going to have to watch the San Fran game.

When it was just wist moaning about linebackers, I assumed the sun had just risen in the east. But now Rand and 3irty1 and bad mouthing them. Highly leveraged tape eating situation.

BTW, bailing on a rookie is often unwise. Took Brian Wiliams 3 years (and one injury) to learn the Will position. Which is effectively what Burks is playing in that passing down base 3-4 (Daniels-Clark-LowryArmy, CMIII-Ponch-Burks-Perry).

[mraynrand]

We'll see plenty more Burks simply because the Packers have to piss with the cock they've got but he's probably a turd.

Harlanophobe

[mraynrand]

Alright, that tears it. I am going to have to watch the San Fran game.

When it was just wist moaning about linebackers, I assumed the sun had just risen in the east. But now Rand and 3irty1 and bad mouthing them. Highly leveraged tape eating situation..

There just isn't all that much to be excited about. The LBs are Meh at best. ON the line, Clark and Daniels are one Pro Bowl pick between them. Then there's Lowry, Gilbert, Fackrell... bleecccch.

If the secondary isn't dominant, they can't play defense against a good QB.