Packers hiring LaFleur.

[Joemailman]

While my more pessimistic side agrees with you here, I am hoping, at least - and I think it's tenable - that the reason the above boldfaced type occurred as you write is due to the extra in-season time afforded them by firing MM during the season. In this scenario, they used that time to talk to people, get a feel for who was a real talent, who would be a fit for Rodgers, and they kept coming back to that name. But for the sake of due diligence and all that, they went through this process, deliberately setting up the order of interviews so that they could satisfy the Rooney Rule (is that even in place formally?) and make it look like a "real" search, all the while knowing who their man was going to be. Thus, no second interview.

Or it's a clusterfuck.

The Packers were the only team to interview LaFleur. If they picked up on the fact that LaFleur wasn't a candidate elsewhere, they may have decided they could wait and interview LaFleur last. They would want to interview the guys that several teams might be interested in, so they don't end up being a day late setting up an interview with a guy they're interested in.

[MadScientist]

Are you sure?

The encouraging part for me is that I thought they actually were aggressive, physical and fast, but played very, very stupidly; and that is the one characteristic that might be most correctable by coaching and experience. It's off season, so I am hopeful!

Unless they get players from the Jude Waddy / Torrence Marshal dumb as stump mold (apologies to stumps).

Actually I didn't think the return game was all that fast or physical, and only aggressive when being stupid. But yes, good coaching should get the players in the right places doing the right things, so they shouldn't look stupid most of the time.

[pbmax]

If you are referring to when Jagodzinki came back as OC with MM, he had had two years with Gibbs in Atlanta, one as TE coach and one as OL. He also had 21 years coaching experience, including 7 in the NFL, 4 in GB in his first stint. Stenavich has only 7 total years coaching experience, and just 2 in the NFL.

Hopefully, Stenavich is an OL coaching prodigy, because he doesn't have a lot of experience to rely on. Butkus has more overall coaching experience, more NFL experience and more OL coaching experience than Stenavich has.

I meant the one year as assistant line coach.

It later became clear he was not qualified to be a true OC. His next OC job saw him fired for having too simplistic a passing offense.

[pbmax]

While my more pessimistic side agrees with you here, I am hoping, at least - and I think it's tenable - that the reason the above boldfaced type occurred as you write is due to the extra in-season time afforded them by firing MM during the season. In this scenario, they used that time to talk to people, get a feel for who was a real talent, who would be a fit for Rodgers, and they kept coming back to that name. But for the sake of due diligence and all that, they went through this process, deliberately setting up the order of interviews so that they could satisfy the Rooney Rule (is that even in place formally?) and make it look like a "real" search, all the while knowing who their man was going to be. Thus, no second interview.

Or it's a clusterfuck.

I am all over the map about this process. But bottom line, I am not so much worried about selecting La Fleur. The Packers probably did as much if not a little more than most franchises do when deciding about a HC. I am sure they called all their contacts and it does sound like Gute had a list of people that impressed him (or at least offenses that impressed him - 2016 Falcons). This is better than most teams do if it was truly a researched process. Most owners hire the guy they like the most.

But there are warning signs that they did not do all they could do.

I would like a more competitive interview group. Not being excited about 9 guys means you were probably interviewing the wrong nine. Or that you were hoping no one tripped you up on the way to the tenth interview. I find it funny that Murphy thinks that La Fleur being the only one who inspired them is a good sign. Its a bad sign that you should have expanded the search and judged the people who provided the initial list of names with a bit of skepticism.

My biggest worry is sheer speculation: that Murphy is doing a Sherman as GM drafting deal. He decides what McCarthy lacks and what was driving Rodgers poor performance was a lack of creativity and flexibility. So he finds a guy that does those two things according to some message board and checks most of the other HC boxes.

However, that search normally doesn't yield a true head coach unless you are certain of some other things. You would hope the interview would clear that up. But it might make LaFluer the Javon Walker or Na'il Diggs of head coaches. Hopefully he is not BJ Sander. Its the kind of process that gives you yo-yo coaches. First guy is players guy. Second guy is tough as nails guy. Third guy is scheme guy. Then back to players guy.



That is worrisome. But its not unrecoverable. Coaches are not hatched on an island like Jurassic Park dinosaurs. They are developed over time. Which brings me to worrisome point #2

The guy should have been more ready with assistant coaches. Stupidly, he names himself play caller at his opening PC. You have to Holmgren and Wolf that stuff. Stall, blather, tell a funny story about your dog. or play the new coach who hasn't decided the best role for his non existent staff yet. Do anything other than put your top two OC candidates off limits. This is an unforced error. He should have known it, or the Packers should have prepped him. If his brother or the other guy call plays in one preseason game, how are the 49ers going collect a draft pick penalty for not giving the OC the play calling job?

You start out by not getting your top choices at ST (I am assuming this since they told him they could give him his number eventually), OC and possibly OL. I think there was a hotter rumor at OL than AS. This does not present the profile of an out of the box ready coach.

You can develop him but they already let him blow an easy decision.

[Patler]

I meant the one year as assistant line coach.

It later became clear he was not qualified to be a true OC. His next OC job saw him fired for having too simplistic a passing offense.

It probably was a good thing for MM that Jagodzinski was overly ambitious, and left after just one year as OC.

[pbmax]

It probably was a good thing for MM that Jagodzinski was overly ambitious, and left after just one year as OC.

I have always wondered if he knew the ZBS as well as he claimed to.

[Joemailman]

I would like a more competitive interview group. Not being excited about 9 guys means you were probably interviewing the wrong nine. Or that you were hoping no one tripped you up on the way to the tenth interview. I find it funny that Murphy thinks that La Fleur being the only one who inspired them is a good sign. Its a bad sign that you should have expanded the search and judged the people who provided the initial list of names with a bit of skepticism.

He didn't say that none of the 9 was impressive. He said they were all excellent coaches but that no one stood out above the rest. Until they interviewed LaFleur.

The guy should have been more ready with assistant coaches. Stupidly, he names himself play caller at his opening PC. You have to Holmgren and Wolf that stuff. Stall, blather, tell a funny story about your dog. or play the new coach who hasn't decided the best role for his non existent staff yet. Do anything other than put your top two OC candidates off limits. This is an unforced error. He should have known it, or the Packers should have prepped him. If his brother or the other guy call plays in one preseason game, how are the 49ers going collect a draft pick penalty for not giving the OC the play calling job?

LaFleur left the L.A. Rams for Tennessee so he could call plays. Since he did that, I think it was probably freaking obvious that when he got a HC job, he would be the one calling the plays. Was he supposed to deceive OC candidates into thinking they would be allowed to call the plays? And then tell them otherwise after they took the job? Besides, how do you know who his 2 top OC candidates were?

[pbmax]

He didn't say that none of the 9 was impressive. He said they were all excellent coaches but that no one stood out above the rest. Until they interviewed LaFleur.



LaFleur left the L.A. Rams for Tennessee so he could call plays. Since he did that, I think it was probably freaking obvious that when he got a HC job, he would be the one calling the plays. Was he supposed to deceive OC candidates into thinking they would be allowed to call the plays? And then tell them otherwise after they took the job? Besides, how do you know who his 2 top OC candidates were?

I think your phrase is saying the same thing. No one had stood out until La Fleur. Now maybe he is just telling a story to make M4 look like the clear cut winner. But if there is truth to it, I see it as a negative. Excellent coaches who did not get the job apparently did not impress or stand out. He is probably trying to say any of the 9 would make great HC, but clearly that wasn't the case. Murphy (or Gute) gave one example of how he stood out: he had a list of assistant coaches he would pursue (Pettine was on the list).

He left to call plays to brighten up his resume to look one step closer to being HC ready. When asked you say now that I am the head coach, I will look at my staff when its assembled and make the best decision to use our talents maximally. If I need to call plays, I will if it gives us our best shot. If I need to manage the game I will speak up when needed to key decisions are needed. so you can at least interview the #1 and #2 interview candidates on your list for OC.

[3irty1]

I dislike everything about this hiring process. 10 interviews, no one stands out, except the last interview who struck them as fantastic. No second interviews. Oddly enough, the last interview is a guy quite likely to know and be willing to accept a DC handed to him.

Keep a D coach as a condition of hiring who upped the pass game defense and did some good work on line stunts, but otherwise produced some lackluster results. Pettine is competent but I am not sure he is more competent than Capers. But he is not going to construct a good or even average defense out of leftovers like some can.

Mixed bag in hiring assistants. Stepanovich (unsure of spelling) and the TE coach are pretty raw as is one of the new DB coaches. ST coach is a retread.

Murphy at the top of three silos.

Other than hiring Jerry Jones to run the team, the process has the stink of committee all over it. Somehow the Steelers made this structure work year after year. But its not comforting that the Steelers are falling apart and are quite willing to be led by a QB on his radio show calling out teammates.

Everyone is worried about Rodgers, I am worried the org is in a state of slow but steady collapse to well intentioned ineptitude.

This is exactly how I feel about it. Rodgers is Rodgers. He'll figure it out or he won't but this idea that a crack team of snake charmers is needed to bring him back to form isn't convincing.

I'm alarmed by Murphy. All of his hires seem more like his own personal assistants than people who are supposed to lead, make decisions, and run the football team. All the generals were replaced with lieutenants. It's hard not to get the feeling the Packers will be exactly as competent as Murphy is now.

[Joemailman]

This is exactly how I feel about it. Rodgers is Rodgers. He'll figure it out or he won't but this idea that a crack team of snake charmers is needed to bring him back to form isn't convincing.

Who on the Packers has ever said that that was needed? None that I know of. That may be the way the media is characterizing it, but so what?

[gbgary]

I'm alarmed by Murphy. All of his hires ...

you mean both? who has he hired besides Gute and LMF? it's only been one year for Gute. LMF remains to be seen. let's see how it goes. Murphy said he's not going to get involved in any personnel or coaching decisions. it's their job going forward.

[pbmax]

you mean both? who has he hired besides Gute and LMF? it's only been one year for Gute. LMF remains to be seen. let's see how it goes. Murphy said he's not going to get involved in any personnel or coaching decisions. it's their job going forward.

I actually trust him not to do that. I don't think he is monomaniacal.

But it just seems that this process was designed to introduce mediocrity as the product. Other than La Fleur blowing them out of the water* with an interview and the Shanahan connection, not much to celebrate.

You could make any smart, decent and conscientious coach a good head coach. But the Packers have never engaged with that process that I am aware of. The last to make any move in that direction was McCarthy and Capers branching out to learn about the spread and before that, it was Sherman hiring a clock coach.

I'm not making that up, am I? Didn't Sherm hire a vet to help with game management?


* And the one example given about how he excelled was his list of possible assistant coaches. Something that has been part of this process since Holmgren's old agent had his coaches put together a binder of a plan including a list of possible assistants.

[pbmax]

you mean both? who has he hired besides Gute and LMF? it's only been one year for Gute. LMF remains to be seen. let's see how it goes. Murphy said he's not going to get involved in any personnel or coaching decisions. it's their job going forward.

Did Murphy get into trouble with one of his business hires? Wasn't there a story about him bringing in new people who pissed off the one heir apparent that he inherited?

Could be nothing and new leadership does that all the time. But there was something.

[3irty1]

you mean both? who has he hired besides Gute and LMF? it's only been one year for Gute. LMF remains to be seen. let's see how it goes. Murphy said he's not going to get involved in any personnel or coaching decisions. it's their job going forward.

I'm counting Russ Ball too.