The Official Fire Mike Pettine Thread

[Fritz]

Pettine as HC is more complex than 'he sucked' Remember, his OC was none other than Kyle Shanahan and his number one draft picks were Gilbert and (not chosen by him) Manziel. Following a could of poor games by Steny Hoyer, the owner pushed for Manzier to start and play the rest of the season. Browns went from 7-4 to 7-9. Shanny left (defillipo came in) basically because he didn't have control over who got to play, etc. That's an organizational problem. Pettine was undermined by the owner, as far as I know.

Ah, so he'll understand when Murphy pops into his office and tells Pettine he wants to see that fourth-round defensive tackle play a little more next game?

[Smidgeon]

Yeah, but he stunk as a HC too. It looks like we are screwed with this crappy coaching staff we are assembling.

This staff isn't any worse (that we know of) than Holmgren's (a point which has already been made). The difference is hindsight. At least give them a couple years before you throw in the towel.

[Carolina_Packer]

Can it be schematic? I guess. Is it mostly personnel, whether the talent they broke camp with or the talent they ended the season with, the defense clearly doesn't have enough difference makers when it comes to putting pressure on the QB. People were wondering about that going through the last offseason. Where are the guys who can win one on one battles?

Was Fangio a better DC because the Bears traded for Khalil Mack who had a ripple effect on the performance of the defense? Players, not plays! BG, go get the players needed and I'm confident that Pettine can get them coached up.

[mraynrand]

Ah, so he'll understand when Murphy pops into his office and tells Pettine he wants to see that fourth-round defensive tackle play a little more next game?

you bet he will.

"Jump? How high, Sir?"

[pbmax]

Can it be schematic? I guess. Is it mostly personnel, whether the talent they broke camp with or the talent they ended the season with, the defense clearly doesn't have enough difference makers when it comes to putting pressure on the QB. People were wondering about that going through the last offseason. Where are the guys who can win one on one battles?

Was Fangio a better DC because the Bears traded for Khalil Mack who had a ripple effect on the performance of the defense? Players, not plays! BG, go get the players needed and I'm confident that Pettine can get them coached up.

Scheme can only take you so far. It solves some problems and gives some teams matchup problems (and vice versa). But the coaches must also get the players playing in unison, no more communication problems while also maintaining the ability to adjust. Most of coaching is a series of paradoxes.

But talent plays a role here. While I am not convinced the top line start talent is that far off from previous years, there has definitely been a talent drain and its seen mostly in the lack of depth at safety, LB and O line. So the Packers looked better on D, especially after adjustments early in the season only to fall apart after injuries.

[bobblehead]

can't fire pettine, he's the only guy on the staff with any head coaching experience at all at any level

If someone fired your boss and put new blood in there who had never done it before might it work really well?

[mraynrand]

It would be ironic if the insertion of Murphy into the football operation in terms of hiring finally did in the Ron Wolf family of scouts in Green Bay.

Since everyone agrees (exaggerated to me) that there is a talent deficiency, I could envision a scenario where Gute is under more pressure than the new coach.

I think there's been a lot of turnover in the scouting department already. Isn't the head of college scouting that Matt Mansplaining guy they hired from SF a couple years back?

Also, Charlie Peprah isn't a Wolf guy.

Unless you mean Eliot Wolf?

I hope Murphy is not involved all that much in player personnel, except to nod and look at the finance people and say yay or nay to whether they can afford some FA or long-term contract.

[pbmax]

I think there's been a lot of turnover in the scouting department already. Isn't the head of college scouting that Matt Mansplaining guy they hired from SF a couple years back?

Also, Charlie Peprah isn't a Wolf guy.

Unless you mean Eliot Wolf?

I hope Murphy is not involved all that much in player personnel, except to nod and look at the finance people and say yay or nay to whether they can afford some FA or long-term contract.

It is less Wolfian than before, but some of that is simply time passing and ol' Ron not training any new scouts. You've probably got more scouts trained by Ted, Reggie or John.

But I mean Gute could be the next head on the chopping block if things continue to head south and he doesn't deliver via the draft.

The one big move away from Wolf/Thompson is the Ravens dude they are supposed to be hiring this offseason to be Gute's right hand.

[red]

If someone fired your boss and put new blood in there who had never done it before might it work really well?

I might, but there would also be a bit of a learning period

[Pugger]

This staff isn't any worse (that we know of) than Holmgren's (a point which has already been made). The difference is hindsight. At least give them a couple years before you throw in the towel.

I guess all the negative crap I'm reading on various message boards is influencing me.

[Joemailman]

I guess all the negative crap I'm reading on various message boards is influencing me.

Some people seem unable to realize that good coaches sometimes come from poor or mediocre teams. The 49ers were the worst offense in the NFL during Mike McCarthy's year there. 2 years later the Packers were in the playoffs, and 5 years later were Super Bowl champs. The Redskins were a sub-.500 team overall in the 3 years Sean McVay was OC there before he went to LA. Bill Belichick had 4 losing seasons out of 5 in Cleveland before going to New England. Players matter and organizations matter.

[mraynrand]

Some people seem unable to realize that good coaches sometimes come from poor or mediocre teams. The 49ers were the worst offense in the NFL during Mike McCarthy's year there. 2 years later the Packers were in the playoffs, and 5 years later were Super Bowl champs. The Redskins were a sub-.500 team overall in the 3 years Sean McVay was OC there before he went to LA. Bill Belichick had 4 losing seasons out of 5 in Cleveland before going to New England. Players matter and organizations matter.

Kyle Shannahan and John DeFilippo were OCs for Cleveland in 2014 and 2015, respectively.

[Bretsky]

I guess all the negative crap I'm reading on various message boards is influencing me.

It's natural to wonder how strong of a staff Matty can put together. It's a real concern

[pbmax]

I am with everyone here and understand the doubts. Until Kyle S took over in Atlanta and then had a breakout year in SF, I thought he was Brian Schottenheimer.

There is no way to be sure. I said the odds of improving on the coach were 30%. I wasn't joking.

But he is what I would prefer in a new hire for HC. A Ted candidate. Young, with high upside and he got a good candidate to fill the most necessary position on the team after himself, a quality DC.

[Joemailman]

Bump. Just in case we need it.