Psst: Don't Talk About This Thread

[Patler]

That's nice, but didn't Tremon Smith have some nice stats too before he came here?

Yup, 26.8 yds/kick return on 33 returns for KC. Didn't return punts.

[run pMc]

Well, ol' Trevor's available now.

https://sports.yahoo.com/raiders-waive-wide-receiver-trevor-233425605.html

"The East Bay native fumbled on a kickoff return early in a 40-9 loss to the Kansas City Chiefs. Then the Raiders wide receiver failed to convert on fourth-down and short on a sweep that was his only offensive snap. There was a cutback lane that easily could've helped him convert, but he pushed outside for no gain and a turnover on downs."

[pbmax]

Yup, 26.8 yds/kick return on 33 returns for KC. Didn't return punts.

How could it have not worked out?

[Patler]

How could it have not worked out?

Have you seen anything that has looked like even moderately effective blocking on kick returns this year? I don't know if it will matter at all who is carrying the ball. They haven't seemed at all capable of holding up the coverage units of other teams.

[pbmax]

Have you seen anything that has looked like even moderately effective blocking on kick returns this year? I don't know if it will matter at all who is carrying the ball. They haven't seemed at all capable of holding up the coverage units of other teams.

I was joking about the stats you posted suggesting he was an experienced kick returner and but not a punt returner.

I think most folks complaints about returns are focused on punt returns. Blocking of gunners is definitely part of the problem, exacerbated by replacement level return guys.

[Patler]

I was joking about the stats you posted suggesting he was an experienced kick returner and but not a punt returner.

I think most folks complaints about returns are focused on punt returns. Blocking of gunners is definitely part of the problem, exacerbated by replacement level return guys.

I got that, I'm just not sure why they keep changing return men on both kicks and punts. I don't see that as the biggest problem on either return team, especially punts. I find it quite frustrating, actually.

[pbmax]

I got that, I'm just not sure why they keep changing return men on both kicks and punts. I don't see that as the biggest problem on either return team, especially punts. I find it quite frustrating, actually.

I am with you. I posted elsewhere that the ST issue being so long extant points to the roster composition and talent acquisition side of the equation: Ted and Gutey.

I think I posed it as a question for Mr. Silo (Murphy) to address. Could also involved the coach. The decision to allow the punter to change his drop was a colossal and avoidable mistake.

The Packers have had middling ST before, under McCarthy. Usually it was good coverage units with one or two exceptional guys (Bush or Janis) coupled with less than stellar returns.

One possibility is that they are early in a small youth movement. Dropping the veterans last year and moving to youth, there is uncertainty at key not quite starter level positions (2nd ILB, all but Adams at WR, backup safety, backup CBs). When you had Nelson, Cobb and Jones, you could afford Janis as a ST ace. Same with Woodson and Tramontana allowing Bush to perform as backup and gunner extraordinaire.

With some seasoning and weeding out, I expect you can take a flyer on a ST guy to be the third or fourth safety. Same with WR.

Blocking for returns has been bad for a long time, especially on punts. I think that might be coaching. I wonder if Packers hamper themselves by restrictions in camp?

Injuries at TE (Stormbringer and Tonyan) also have not helped ST. Vitale has been banged up too.

[pbmax]

But to answer Patler's original question, I think they are grasping for anything that might help.

The fumble was probably the last straw as it is for most coaches.

[Fritz]

I got that, I'm just not sure why they keep changing return men on both kicks and punts. I don't see that as the biggest problem on either return team, especially punts. I find it quite frustrating, actually.

While it was fun to make fun of Mr. East-West (and I think it was a valid criticism), I agree that the bigger issue is the blocking problem. The other team's gunners consistently beat their blocks and are just a-waitin' on the punt returner to make the catch. Or, in the case of kickoff returns, a returnable kick results in a line of opponents flying down the field, with no place for the returner to go.

I suppose it's easier to change returners than to change the gunners and ST players, or to fire the ST coach mid-season.

[pbmax]

Back up to league average after good punting and FG performance.

15th overall on ST after Week 13.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst/2019

2nd on FG/XP. 20th on kickoff coverage. 26th in kick returns, 18th in punting, 31st in punt returns.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'd like to see Shepherd given another chance - maybe next season.

[Patler]

What is so frustrating for me is the consistently mediocre performances over the last bunch of seasons, despite a GM change, head coach change, even more ST coaching changes, promises for increased emphasis and a parade of returners. The overall compositions of return teams always change, because 25% or more of the roster changes every year, regardless. Some teams seem to have consistently good return teams even with similar changes. Green Bay seems to be consistently poor.

[Fritz]

Give KYPack the reins; he'll have those sumbitches shaped up in a couple weeks.

[MadtownPacker]

Give KYPack the reins; he'll have those sumbitches shaped up in a couple weeks.

But first sign UDFA and shutdown corner AntiPolarbeartank for him to coach!

[George Cumby]

But first sign UDFA and shutdown corner AntiPolarbeartank for him to coach!

I would pay good money to watch that.