Fackrell vs Gary

[Patler]

Through seven games:

Fackrell - 155 snaps, 9 tackles, 1/2 sack
Gary - 118 snaps, 10 tackles, 1 sack.

[SudsMcBucky]

Fackrell - 3rd round pick (88th overall)
Gary - 1st round pick (12th overall)

[Sparkey]

Fackrell 3 years and 7 games of experience
Gary 7 games of experience

[Patler]

Fackrell - 3rd round pick (88th overall)
Gary - 1st round pick (12th overall)

What's your point? Once you are on a team, no one cares how you got there or when you were drafted. All that matters is if you produce. Does it matter that Tom Brady was a 6th round pick (199th overall) and Aaron Rodgers was a 1st round pick (24th overall)?

Many have expressed a hope that Gary can become an upgrade from Fackrell. With a limited sample size, nothing is clear yet whether he will be or won't be, but I thought it would be interesting to see where they are at right now in this season.

[Patler]

Fackrell 3 years and 7 games of experience
Gary 7 games of experience

Yup, hopefully, Gary has more upside. Fackrell is also 6 years older than Gary.

[SudsMcBucky]

What's your point? Once you are on a team, no one cares how you got there or when you were drafted. All that matters is if you produce. Does it matter that Tom Brady was a 6th round pick (199th overall) and Aaron Rodgers was a 1st round pick (24th overall)?

Many have expressed a hope that Gary can become an upgrade from Fackrell. With a limited sample size, nothing is clear yet whether he will be or won't be, but I thought it would be interesting to see where they are at right now in this season.

You have to land a hit when you have a top 1st round pick. They're paid more and you've invested significantly more draft capital on that player where they BETTER produce at a higher rate. Look, I hope Gary still ends up panning out. However, I didn't like him prior to the draft and what he's done so far hasn't changed my mind. I hope I'm wrong.

[Patler]

You have to land a hit when you have a top 1st round pick. They're paid more and you've invested significantly more draft capital on that player where they BETTER produce at a higher rate. Look, I hope Gary still ends up panning out. However, I didn't like him prior to the draft and what he's done so far hasn't changed my mind. I hope I'm wrong.

In a perfect NFL world, maybe; but that is not the way it works in reality. There are plenty of #1 overall picks who are busts, let alone top half of the first round busts. I don't think a team has to be right on any specific pick to be successful as a team. They really don't even have to be "right' in any one draft class. Collectively over several years they have to do it right.

As for Gary, if he becomes a worthy starter/regular player for the next 8-10 years, it will be a successful draft pick, in my opinion, even if he never is an all-pro. The encouraging thing is that he is playing regularly, and has been "OK". He hasn't been a difference maker, but also hasn't been a liability.

[run pMc]

I suppose you could compare just their rookie years

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FackKy00.htm#

Fackrell Played 160 Def snaps, 284 ST snaps producing 9 Tkl(8 Solo), 1 TFL, 2 Sk, 1 PD, 1FF

Granted, Gary is more physically talented and drafted much higher so the expectations are as well, but I'm confident that he'll top Fackrell's rookie numbers. Until last year's surprise (fluke?) 10 sack season some posters thought KyloFack was a bust/JAG.

Ultimately I think comparing their first 3 seasons will be most illustrative. Gary seems like a quintessential raw talent/upside type (i.e., boom or bust) and I think it will take time for the result to be determined.

I agree that if he gives them 8-10 seasons of play he's a decent pick. Generally you have to have some good seasons (and good luck/health) to stick around that long.

[Packers4Glory]

imagine what Metcalf would look like about now in GB.

[texaspackerbacker]

The comparison I prefer to make is Gary to Nick Perry - both first round picks; we got that fairly long period of years out of Perry as somewhere between a mediocre and an ok player. Would we be satisfied with something similar out of Gary? I sure wouldn't.

The other comparision I'd consider is Gary to A.J. Hawk - both first rounders; We got an even longer period of fairly decent play out of Hawk, but considering where they were drafted, I wouldn't be satisfied with that for Gary.

Like somebody said, the stakes aren't as high for a third rounder like Fackrell, and you could say that he paid off pretty well last season. On the other hand, management concluded that he wasn't good enough as a long term top pass rusher, hence getting the Smiths and Gary.

IMO, all this panicky crap about Gary is way premature. If he get to the three year point like Fackrell and he has not shown a helluva lot of improvement, then we got something to complain about. I'm betting, though, that Gary lives up to what is expected from a first rounder.

[ThunderDan]

imagine what Metcalf would look like about now in GB.

Imagine Metcalf fumbling away the game last week like he did for Seattle and the uproar on PackerRats on how it was a wasted pick!

[Patler]

The comparison I prefer to make is Gary to Nick Perry - both first round picks; we got that fairly long period of years out of Perry as somewhere between a mediocre and an ok player. Would we be satisfied with something similar out of Gary? I sure wouldn't.

The other comparision I'd consider is Gary to A.J. Hawk - both first rounders; We got an even longer period of fairly decent play out of Hawk, but considering where they were drafted, I wouldn't be satisfied with that for Gary.

Like somebody said, the stakes aren't as high for a third rounder like Fackrell, and you could say that he paid off pretty well last season. On the other hand, management concluded that he wasn't good enough as a long term top pass rusher, hence getting the Smiths and Gary.

IMO, all this panicky crap about Gary is way premature. If he get to the three year point like Fackrell and he has not shown a helluva lot of improvement, then we got something to complain about. I'm betting, though, that Gary lives up to what is expected from a first rounder.

If he plays like Perry, when Perry actually was healthy, I'll be satisfied. My only complaints about Perry were that too often he was not available to play, and too often when he did play it was with a cast on an arm or hand, limiting his performance. When healthy, he was decent. If Gary doesn't play significantly more than Perry, it will be disappointing.

Hawk is a good example of where we differ. Hawk was a reliable starter for a lot of years. He isn't a disappointment to me just because he was a first round pick and wasn't an all-pro. Besides, for me to be disappointed with the Hawk pick, I would have to consider it relative to all the other top prospects available to GB when they took Hawk. Not the ones who came from no where in the later rounds, the other reasonable first round picks. That becomes way too complicated for me!

[texaspackerbacker]

The most telling thing about Perry is how good the Smiths are now. I don't recall any quality level remotely like that from Perry.

As for Hawk, people complain about Martinez - maybe validly, but I get a lot better feeling about Martinez than I ever did about Hawk.

Yeah, this is getting complicated hahahahaha

Suffice it to say, I never had many positive thoughts or feelings about Perry. Gary I do - at least speed and power and maybe agility. He just needs to be coached up and play to somewhere near his ability.

[mraynrand]

imagine what Metcalf would look like about now in GB.

Serious question: how many Seachickens games have you watched? In other words, is your assessment first or second-hand? If first hand, I would love to hear your run-down on the guy. Again, not being wise, just want to get a little depth.

[run pMc]

I liked the early stuff from Perry when he was healthy -- seemed like every other time he sacked the QB he'd force a fumble. Decent at setting the edge vs. the run too. The trouble was, he had hands made out of fine crystal and was in a club most of the time, or otherwise hurt.
I wonder if he'd have a better career had he have been a 4-3 DE for another team. Pretty telling that AFAIK he's not on a roster.

Agree with Patler that if Gary plays like a healthy Perry and can stay healthy, he'll be fine.

For all the grief Martinez gets, I see him as basically Hawk but drafted at the right round. Hard to complain about him considering he's a R4 pick and thinking about some of the players they've thrown out there at ILB (D.J Smith, Nate Palmer, etc.)
Someone's gonna offer Martinez a bigger contract than he's worth: solid player, can line up and run the D, but not a superstar/playmaker.