The packers will win when...

[packers11]

They can make 3rd down conversions....

Green Bay was just 1-for-11 in third-down conversions.....

Most of our 3rd downs were third and short (5 or less)...
YOU HAVE TO COMPLETE THOSE...

Doesn't the playbook have more hooks/slants/short dump passes???

[Tony Oday]

Agreed that was the difference in the game. We get the first downs on 3rd down we win games. We need to get some plays to hang our hat on. Remember we have 15 weeks before we have to play them again...

[Pack0514]

Just Kidding....... give them a few weeks. We knew it was going to be a long year. They will come around..... I am not saying playoffs bound but they will win a few games. Right now we are playing for the future.... Keep that in mind.

[Patler]

Well, one thing we know for sure, they will never win if they don't score any points!

[packers11]

Well, one thing we know for sure, they will never win if they don't score any points!

actually.... If the other team runs out of bounds in thier own endzone.. THEN MAYBE, we will win without the "packers" putting the points up

[HarveyWallbangers]

3rd and 4th down plays in the first half (the second one was when Favre got his toe stepped on):

3-1-GB26 (10:59) A.Green left tackle to GB 26 for no gain (L.Briggs).
3-3-GB44 (3:21) B.Favre sacked at GB 40 for -4 yards (L.Briggs).
3-1-CHI44 (11:54) A.Green right tackle to CHI 44 for no gain (T.Harris).
4-1-CHI44 (11:16) B.Favre up the middle to CHI 44 for no gain (A.Ogunleye).
3-17-GB32 (2:40) (Shotgun) B.Favre pass short middle to A.Green to GB 45 for 13 yards (H.Hillenmeyer, C.Harris).
4-4-GB45 (2:04) (Punt formation) J.Ryan pass short right to N.Herron to CHI 39 for 16 yards (A.Peterson).
3-16-CHI45 (:40) (Shotgun) B.Favre pass short left to R.Ferguson to CHI 35 for 10 yards (N.Vasher).
4-6-CHI35 (:04) D.Rayner 53 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-R.Davis, Holder-J.Ryan.

Ahman ran pretty well, but we couldn't convert short yardage plays in the first half early (and had the play where Wells stepped on Favre's foot). Who knows how the game goes if we convert those short yardage situations early.

[Fosco33]

3rd and 4th down plays in the first half (the second one was when Favre got his toe stepped on):

3-1-GB26 (10:59) A.Green left tackle to GB 26 for no gain (L.Briggs).
3-3-GB44 (3:21) B.Favre sacked at GB 40 for -4 yards (L.Briggs).
3-1-CHI44 (11:54) A.Green right tackle to CHI 44 for no gain (T.Harris).
4-1-CHI44 (11:16) B.Favre up the middle to CHI 44 for no gain (A.Ogunleye).
3-17-GB32 (2:40) (Shotgun) B.Favre pass short middle to A.Green to GB 45 for 13 yards (H.Hillenmeyer, C.Harris).
4-4-GB45 (2:04) (Punt formation) J.Ryan pass short right to N.Herron to CHI 39 for 16 yards (A.Peterson).
3-16-CHI45 (:40) (Shotgun) B.Favre pass short left to R.Ferguson to CHI 35 for 10 yards (N.Vasher).
4-6-CHI35 (:04) D.Rayner 53 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-R.Davis, Holder-J.Ryan.

Ahman ran pretty well, but we couldn't convert short yardage plays in the first half early (and had the play where Wells stepped on Favre's foot). Who knows how the game goes if we convert those short yardage situations early.

Do you think Navenpoop was a better short yard back? If Green can't cut it on 3rd and short, what are we to do now - Gado was worse and Herron didn't get reps? I hate passing on 3rd and short.

[HarveyWallbangers]

No, I think Ahman is an EXCELLENT short yardage runner. Always has been. Hell, I think over a two year stretch, at least, he was the best in the league in short yardage situations. The blocking was very poor on those plays. I can't blame Ahman. I thought the OL played okay, but they really stunk in those big situations, and it seemed to me that the OTs were to blame as much as the interior OL throughout the day.

[Fosco33]

No, I think Ahman is an EXCELLENT short yardage runner. Always has been. Hell, I think over a two year stretch, at least, he was the best in the league in short yardage situations. The blocking was very poor on those plays. I can't blame Favre. I thought the OL played okay, but they really stunk in those big situations, and it seemed to me that the OTs were to blame as much as the interior OL throughout the day.

I agree completely - just wondering your perspective. I also agree on the OTs - it was not a good day to be a fan of great upfront blocks.

What did you think of using the TE motion to the strong side as an extra interior block (sometimes in addition to keeping AG in max protect) - we were sometimes playing 9/10 vs 11. I hope that was just a strategy against a tough front 7 and not status quo for the year...

[packers11]

No, I think Ahman is an EXCELLENT short yardage runner. Always has been. Hell, I think over a two year stretch, at least, he was the best in the league in short yardage situations. The blocking was very poor on those plays. I can't blame Favre. I thought the OL played okay, but they really stunk in those big situations, and it seemed to me that the OTs were to blame as much as the interior OL throughout the day.

I agree completely - just wondering your perspective. I also agree on the OTs - it was not a good day to be a fan of great upfront blocks.

What did you think of using the TE motion to the strong side as an extra interior block (sometimes in addition to keeping AG in max protect) - we were sometimes playing 9/10 vs 11. I hope that was just a strategy against a tough front 7 and not status quo for the year...

haha... I saw that to, I was saying to myself look at all the people trying to block the bears pass rush..... We have the TE's the line and the rb trying to help, that leaves 2 WR to run around against 6 or so people... Its not going to work...

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't think the play calling was bad. They were able to run a little and they completed 6 for 6 for 84 yards throwing the ball into the 3rd quarter. THE problem was failure to convert short yardage situations on the first 3-4 drives, and I think they called the right plays. 3rd and 1? Run up the middle with Ahman. Can't blame the playcalling. 3rd and 3? Looks like they were going to throw a short pass. Wells steps on Brett's foot. Can't blame the playcalling. 4th and inches? QB sneak. Can't blame the playcalling.

[vince]

I don't think the play calling was bad. They were able to run a little and they completed 6 for 6 for 84 yards throwing the ball into the 3rd quarter. THE problem was failure to convert short yardage situations on the first 3-4 drives, and I think they called the right plays. 3rd and 1? Run up the middle with Ahman. Can't blame the playcalling. 3rd and 3? Looks like they were going to throw a short pass. Wells steps on Brett's foot. Can't blame the playcalling. 4th and inches? QB sneak. Can't blame the playcalling.

It's good to hear your perspective, Harv... You definitely understand the nuances of the game. So many seem to think there are silver-bullet answers to what are complex problems...

The coach sucks...
It's all TT's fault...
Bad playcalling...
No talent...

All of the above?
None of the above?
Some of all of the above?
None of some of the above?

No matter how much people want to think otherwise, it will take time to determine what the issues are, which ones rectify themselves and which ones magnify themselves. You, Harv, as an obviously experienced and knowledgeable fan, understand that.

Thanks Harv.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Vince, you are being too kind. I don't think I'm coming up with anything new, and I'm sure there are some that agree with me. There are times when I think you can blame the playcalling. This wasn't really one of those times.

I think Christl is right though when he said he thinks the coaching staff might have been too hasty starting Poppinga. They probably should have waited until they saw more of him before making him a starter.