Robinson signed to two year deal

[Patler]

patler, i didn't understand a word you just said

Sorry, let me try again.


First, red wrote:

"OJ was found guilty in a civil trial of murder, yet he is free to walk. this is america, if you have the lawyers and the money, you can beat our legal system"

to which Terry responded;

"That's very misleading. Of course he is free to walk - he was found NOT guilty in a criminal trial with a jury of his peers. Personally, I always felt that the civil trial was a way to work around our system in terms of double jeopardy. For a democracy and a republic, it was a very dangerous precedent, imo. It undermines everything the Founding Fathers stood for."
.

I was responding to Terry's comment, "Personally, I always felt that the civil trial was a way to work around our system in terms of double jeopardy. For a democracy and a republic, it was a very dangerous precedent, imo. It undermines everything the Founding Fathers stood for."

I'm not quite sure what Tery meant by it. Civil trials have followed criminal trials for the same deeds forever. This was not something new in the OJ situation, and it really did not set any precedant.

Criminal trials and civil trials have different issues and different standards of proof for success. It is not that unusual for someone to be both "not guilty" in the criminal trial yet found liable in a civil trial for the same activity.

In a criminal trial the government is trying to punish the person for what was done. he might go to prison,be fined, etc. The criminal trial has a standard of proof of "beyond a reasonable doubt". The juror must believe he did it "beyond a reasonable doubt" before voting "guilty" and the verdict must be unanimous, all jurors agreeing to it for the guy to be convicted.

In a civil trial the people that were injured (the plaintiffs) are suing for compensation for the injury inflicted. The standard of proof is some form of a "preponderance of evidence", "more likely than not" etc. This is much lower than the criminal standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt". The civil trial verdict requires only that a simple majority of the jurors agree for the person to be held liable..

The standard is much higher in the criminal trial because the guy can be sent to prison or in some way punished by the state. The standard is lower in a civil trial when all he has to do is pay money to compensate the people that were injured.

The difference between the OJ criminal trial and the later civil trial filed by the family was not surprising at all.

[gbpackfan]

I don't care about K-Rob's off the field issues. I'm sorry, I don't.

I want to win. I don't want to be embarassed. I don't want to lose to the Bears.

K-Rob can help. End of story.

Christl needs to get off his soap box and shut the fuck up! Should the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel fire him when he screws up outside of work? I bet that guy has a million skeletons in his closet. It's just a shame that no one writes stories about him. Oh that's right, NO ONE CARES ABOUT CRUSTY CHRISTL! What an ass wipe.

[FritzDontBlitz]

just got home. was originally intending to avoid every packer site because i got so tired of all the mindless venting yesterday, but i couldn't stay away. i saw on jso that k-rob got signed. i say good move. i know he has a checkered past but no one knows that better than tt. i sincerely hope tt's right, and not just because i think k-rob has serious talent (i was hoping green bay would have drafted him but holmgren snatched him first). alcoholism is a disease that requires two things: treatment and a positive environment full of people who encourage you to stay clean rather than "enable" you (allow it to happen by covering for you, making excuses to rationalize/condone abuse or just looking the other way). k-rob obviously was in the wrong environment in minnesota. i believe green bay will be good for him as a person. remember donald driver's comments when asked if k-rob would be welcome on the team? driver gave an enthusiastic yes and said the guys on the team are all married for the most part and would be a good support group for him. if i had a say in who k-rob should hang out with i would suggest batman for his tireless work ethic and i'd sic kgb on him to try to evangelize him - trust me guys, the drinking is an obvious sign to fill a void in k-rob's life and that's what evangelism is about (my apologies to the forum moderators if religion is not allowed here). but, you get my point: k-rob needs the right influences around him to steer him away from his self-destructive tendencies. i believe the ONLY reason tt didn't sign k-rob last week was because he didn't want to eat his previous contract, NOT because he was desperate for help after the loss to the bears. i welcome the guy and hope he does a good job both on and off the field.

as for the incredibly hypocritical question "what if he had killed somebody while he was driving?" i think whoever asked that should ask every nfl team the same question because every stadium let's thousands of fans drive home drunk after every game. and cliff christl has to be the biggest hypocrite in the state of wisconsin - the guy has the classic LOOK of a closet lush...

[Guiness]

Red, I never called you that by the way. It's a forum and I gave you my opinion. You have yours, I have mine. Proven guilty? The DUI needs to be proven but the felony is self evident for all to see. Also, my understanding is that his trial doesn't need to happen for the NFL to lay down the one year suspension.

I asked that earlier - saying I was surprised that the NFL hadn't acted more quickly on what seems to be a pretty self evident conclusion - the answer was that for the most part, the NFL will wait until he is proven guilty before assessing their own punishment.

I guess the reasoning would be what others are pointing out - shit can happen

[devil's advocate]What if the NFL suspends him (taking away his livelihood), he goes to court, and it gets found out that the cop who charged him is some college DB that he burnt badly in college, and still holds a grudge? And he chased KRob down in an attempt at vengence?[/devil's advocate]

I just thought of something....I wonder if his case in Washington will be heard by a die hard Seahawk fan and his felony trial in Minnesota will be heard by a die hard Viking fan....? I'm 99% kidding on that, although a goofy judge isn't out of the realm of possibility.

You have goofy judges down there? Come on, it's all good, isn't it?

[Guiness]

My only question: Can the guy get open?

BOMNF!!!

[Guiness]

I know you have speed limits on your motorways. Some of you know, most of our motorways have no speed limits. So, I drive to work at 220 kmh. 120 Mph is "normal" around here.

Just a comment Tarlam - as far as I know, this wasn't a motorway/freeway designed for high speed driving. It was a surface road with crossing intersections.

Anyone familiar with the section of road he was arrested on? What exactly is it like?

[vince]

I know you have speed limits on your motorways. Some of you know, most of our motorways have no speed limits. So, I drive to work at 220 kmh. 120 Mph is "normal" around here.

Just a comment Tarlam - as far as I know, this wasn't a motorway/freeway designed for high speed driving. It was a surface road with crossing intersections.

Anyone familiar with the section of road he was arrested on? What exactly is it like?

It was a highway with a 55 mph speed limit.

[Rastak]

I know you have speed limits on your motorways. Some of you know, most of our motorways have no speed limits. So, I drive to work at 220 kmh. 120 Mph is "normal" around here.

Just a comment Tarlam - as far as I know, this wasn't a motorway/freeway designed for high speed driving. It was a surface road with crossing intersections.

Anyone familiar with the section of road he was arrested on? What exactly is it like?

It was a highway with a 55 mph speed limit.

Just for accuracy, once he got into town it was 40-50 through stop signs on city streets.....per stuff I read. I'm sure the trial will get that into the public domain....

[Tarlam!]

Tarlam,

Thank you for your insightful and revealing post.

In an earlier post, I posed the question: What is the best course of action for Koren Robinson in dealing with his disease of alcoholism?

Do you feel he should be in an intensive alcohol rehab center to focus on his recovery and not play pro football? Or is it your opinion that he receive private out-patient alcohol counseling and continue to play for the Packers?

I am aware that Robinson already has been in alcohol rehab at least once, if not, a couple of times. It is my understanding that some alcoholics/substance abusers need several rehab stints to finally become sober/clean.

Your input would be appreciated, Tarlam.

OPF

OPF, thanks for asking. I think each alcoholic has their own issues and symptoms.

I read a poster that now enjoys success and sobriety saying he wanted to die every morning and every night while trying to kick it.

Y'know, I have never had physical symptoms. Ever. There are various forms of alcoholism. Regular binge drinkers are, in fact, alcoholics. Yet they do not require alcohol every day. They need a good blast every now and again and, society actually condones even applauds such behaviour.

I drink every day. But I have had lengthy periods of abstinance. I am a little more impatient than ususual during those periods. I am also not an aggressive alcoholic. I do know, however, that I am vastly shortening my life span by drinking the amounts that I do, and that weighs me down. Despite this knowledge, I drink. And I smoke, too.

Moral apostles that have chosen not to understand the disease sweep every alcoholic with the same broom. The fact is, this disease is very cunning. My advice to anyone here is to deepen your understanding of the disease before you start throwing stones at Krob.

I don't know what his issues were/are. I don't know if he can enjoy sobriety or if he will have the feeling something is missing from his otherwise complete life.

At the end of the day, Krob is responsible for Krob. I am responsible for me. I didn't get the sense Krob was blaming anybody but himself for his situation. Neither do I.

Success can lead you to the bottle, just as quickly as failure in life. I can promise you that.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I say we should just use him as long as he's not suspended, only pay him for the weeks we use like TT did with the contract and then cut him when we no longer have use for him if it gets to that.

Forget about fixing this guy. If he wants help, he can get it himself.

This sounds a little cold, but accurately reflects what's going on. Thompson made a judgement that the kid won't be disruptive, and he took a chance.

[MadtownPacker]

This sounds a little cold, but accurately reflects what's going on. Thompson made a judgement that the kid won't be disruptive, and he took a chance.

Jennings (the poster) is a whacked in the head chump who turns his back on his supposed team after one game. That is the lowest of the low IMO. At least the bears trolls and Rastak the sinless are fans of thier teams.

I have 0 respect for a punk like GJ and I hope he goes to a PR get together at one of the games so I can tell him to his face.

[Harlan Huckleby]

try breathing into a paper bag.

[Rastak]

That is the lowest of the low IMO. At least the bears trolls and Rastak the sinless are fans of thier teams.

Rastak the sinless.....LOL......

[MadtownPacker]

try breathing into a paper bag.

OK and you try breathing into a plastic one.

I will be stopping by your house too so clean it up and start digging your Buffalo Bob style hole for me like on Silence of the Lambs.


Rastak - Yes the sinless.

I cant understand why people wont give KR his last chance cuz this will most likely be his last. Like I said in a earlier post, he could have killed someone but didnt. Little from the Rams, straight up killed someone. Not hurt, killed. I read the SI article a long time ago. Made me want to puke. he didnt understand why the family wouldnt accept his apology. Guess he figured getting another DUI after all that would make them feel better that he took a wife and mothers life and yet not only is he a free man, he is a very rich one too!

KR didnt but he is a lost man right now. Maybe going to GB can help him, maybe he can change. I feel he will likely fail but I am willing to let him try. Have any of you ever failed or been a let down?

[Rastak]

try breathing into a paper bag.

OK and you try breathing into a plastic one.

I will be stopping by your house too so clean it up and start digging your Buffalo Bob style hole for me like on Silence of the Lambs.


Rastak - Yes the sinless.

I cant understand why people wont give KR his last chance cuz this will most likely be his last. Like I said in a earlier post, he could have killed someone but didnt. Little from the Rams, straight up killed someone. Not hurt, killed. I read the SI article a long time ago. Made me want to puke. he didnt understand why the family wouldnt accept his apology. Guess he figured getting another DUI after all that would make them feel better that he took a wife and mothers life and yet not only is he a free man, he is a very rich one too!

KR didnt but he is a lost man right now. Maybe going to GB can help him, maybe he can change. I feel he will likely fail but I am willing to let him try. Have any of you ever failed or been a let down?

Hey, it was you Mad who said HAHAHAHAHAHA if I recall correctly.....and I do!

Hey, I've been let down....by this very guy just a few weeks ago. He let down his entire team but he's your problem now.