Pettine makes a change

[Sparkey]

The stars upfront for the Green Bay defense asked Mike Pettine to tweak the scheme, to simplify things and just let them play. It paid off in a dominating performance against the Eagles on Sunday.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2020/12/8/22159919/packers-defense-mike-pettine-zadarius-smith-man-coverage-carson-wentz-benched

I think I read that they played more man defense than they have all year. Will be interesting to see if they continue with the Philly game plan or go back to the soft shell zone.

[Upnorth]

The data has said they are far better at man than zone which definately is against the league trend. I think they need to stay in man. That is alexanders strenght plus it givesvthe pass rush a fraction of a second more as the offense isn't able to rely on timed zone throws as much.

Earlier in the season I think we were 3 or 4 to1 snaps in zone vrs man which is the exact opposite to how our players play.

[RashanGary]

The only good thing is we won a bunch of games while practicing new concepts. If a pitcher is always throwing a fast ball, I don't care if it's 101 mph with a late move on it, the hitters gonna catch on.

We can't just go line up and play man every snap and when we run into the best man beater teams, the ones who love to bunch up and rub routes and all that, the whole fan nation gonna cry he can't win against certain team's and is useless.

IF they've become good enough at zone with all of that investment to have a legit change up and curve ball to where they can lean on the fastball now and still mix in some other pitches it will all pay off. There is more to winning at the end than just.doing one thing well.

[Joemailman]

Thought it might be instructive to go back to what Pettine was saying in his 1st PC with Packers:

https://madison.com/wsj/sports/footb...81baafb1c.html

“The cornerstone for us is going to be, first of all, fundamentally sound, smart football,” Pettine said. “We coach the heck out of the little details. If you want to get into the schematic stuff, I like to appear multiple. I know people have said the system can be very complicated, but we like to appear multiple without necessarily putting that much stuff in.”

“It’s not a system that is overwhelming to learn,” he said. “The league has changed. When I first got in the league, it was easy to put in 50 or 60 defenses for a game. Now, you’re 20 to 25. Why? Because a lot of time you’re dealing with young players that haven’t been veteran guys in a system that know it and also you’re dealing with the new CBA where you have limited time to get with them, especially in the offseason, for them to learn that foundation. I think as a coach you have to adjust. But (when) you look at us you’re going to see we’re going to be multiple and we’re going to be aggressive.”

“I think you still have to be sound against the run, but you lose a heck of a lot faster when you’re giving up chunks in the passing game than you are necessarily in the run game,” Pettine said.

“It’s critical to win on early downs, but the pass part of it is huge. You have to find a way to affect the quarterback. If you’re not sacking him, you’re hitting him, you’re getting knockdowns, you’re getting hurries and you’re in his head a little bit. And you’re changing it up. Coach (McCarthy) talked about winning the pre-snap. That’s always been an important aspect of our system. If NFL quarterbacks know what you’re in pre-snap, you’re in trouble. The disguise element and mixing up coverages and making things look similar but having the ability to play something different out of it — that chess-game part of it — I think is important. That’s something we’re going to emphasize.”

Has he played chess too much? Or if he makes it too simple, is he playing checkers against offenses playing chess?

[RashanGary]

We’ll see how it plays out. From my perspective, I hear people coming up with one liner reasons why something doesn't or didn't work and don't get into any depth. It's hard to take seriously complaints that don't explain at all what is happening or should be or why even if they did what you demand it has other downfalls that are completely ignored. But still, stay stuck in the one liner complaint and sure fire solution

[RashanGary]

What happens when pure man defenses run into the Packers? They lose. Every time. That's what happens. You think we're the only team built to destroy man defense and we're just gonna waltz through the post season gauntlet without ever running into a bad match up. Fuck no.

There is a reason Pettine develops a couple pitches and doesn't just throw fast balls. The investment in zone defense will pay off even if they do lean a little more into man down the stretch. And probably should. But to never develop the other stuff would insure we will never win a championship

[RashanGary]

Ope, its 2019. We have a second year corner, a rookie free safety. Sullivan, Greene and Redmond are all relatively young. We play man defense alright but our young guys struggle with the subtleties of zone.


Solution:

Give up. Just accept that these guys will never be able to do anything other than man defense. Invest zero energy into growth. Boom. Championship


Or


As a second option, maybe push to do a few things. Let guys make a couple mistakes and keep pushing toward being able to mix a couple defenses so you can keep play callers and professional quarterbacks off balance.




RELAX!

[GB-Brandon]

Ope, its 2019. We have a second year corner, a rookie free safety. Sullivan, Greene and Redmond are all relatively young. We play man defense alright but our young guys struggle with the subtleties of zone.


Solution:

Give up. Just accept that these guys will never be able to do anything other than man defense. Invest zero energy into growth. Boom. Championship


Or


As a second option, maybe push to do a few things. Let guys make a couple mistakes and keep pushing toward being able to mix a couple defenses so you can keep play callers and professional quarterbacks off balance.




RELAX!

Or

Continue to waste draft picks drafting DB’s with premium picks and more recently spend $ to bring in free agent help at safety with little to no return!!!

FAILURE!!

[Fritz]

Thought it might be instructive to go back to what Pettine was saying in his 1st PC with Packers:

https://madison.com/wsj/sports/footb...81baafb1c.html



Has he played chess too much? Or if he makes it too simple, is he playing checkers against offenses playing chess?

The way I understoid "simplify," it suggested that zone is harder/more complicated to play than man, and that zone is safer but less aggressive, which meant QB's could get rid of the ball quickly and frustrate the pass rush.

Instead of "simplify," I'd say it sounds like they wanted a more aggressive approach.

But I am no expert on man vs. zone.

[GB-Brandon]

Go get a competent defensive coordinator and a defensive line that can beat people up with some twitchy speed in the middle and come back and talk to me.

The problem is it will be too late!!!

This shit has been ran so ass backwards.

[smuggler]

Might end up being an improvement. Having veiled calls is great, unless calling 12 straight runs beats it anyway.

[GB-Brandon]

People have literally been having these discussions for ten years now when the answers are right under their noses. It never ceases to amaze me.

It’s the same song and dance over and over and over. It really is Insane. The “Big Changes” after dominating probably the worst and most decimated OL in the NFL that even the Seattle Seahawks got pressure on.

Let’s see how these BIG CHANGES play out in a few week against the Titans!!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

I doubt this change was very significant or long term. It had more to do with the opposition than anything else. Our Corners should have been and mostly were able to handle the receiver group of the Eagles in man coverage. Against a lot of teams, that hasn't been the case and won't be going forward. Zone doesn't have to be "soft shell" almost prevent type defense. We have played that some, and I don't like it either. We also have played some zone which I do like - a step or two closer to the line in all cases.

I'm still on the fire Pettine bandwagon, although I doubt it happens after a excellent record as the Packers are headed for. For better or worse, though, Pettine seems worried (overly?) about giving up big plays. And the Packers have been pretty successful doing that with him as D Coordinator.

[Fritz]

People have literally been having these discussions for ten years now when the answers are right under their noses. It never ceases to amaze me.

It’s the same song and dance over and over and over. It really is Insane. The “Big Changes” after dominating probably the worst and most decimated OL in the NFL that even the Seattle Seahawks got pressure on.

Let’s see how these BIG CHANGES play out in a few week against the Titans!!!!

I assume you are referring to your above post - get a bunch of dominating defensive linemen and some great linebackers!

As we used to say back in the 70's, no shit Sherlock.

It is obvious but it ain' easy. How many really dominating defenses are there right now in the NFL? The rules changes over the years have increasingly favored offenses. You can't just snap your fingers and get a few fantastically talented big guys on your line as well as some "twitchy" linebackers, and also keep stocking your other positions. Look at the team you'd probably point to for your example: the Niners. Great year last year. Didn't win the SB. How they doing this year?

You always seem so dismissive of the Packers. Try to enjoy them. They're 9 - 3, dude. What they hell would you do if you were a Lions fan or even a Vikings fan? Enjoy the ride, bud. They've got a shot - they are flawed, but who's not? - and so let's see where it goes.

[RashanGary]

Yeah. Just get the best players. Duh. All 32 teams should theoretically win the super bowl if theyd just listen to Brandon.