Official Packers at Buccaneers NFC Championship Game Thread

[sharpe1027]

One time I told a kid who worked for me that I would fuck him up. He told on me. I said I didn’t do it. I conspired to cover my tracks. No one could prove it because it was my word against his and I lied. It happens all of the time, bud. It’s about as complicated as a 4 year old pointing at his baby sister when he makes a mess. People grasp the lying concept early, bud. Questioning whether people are lying isn’t as insane and ridiculous as you try to sarcastically make it seem. It’s a very common human behavior.

We're not talking about someone lying to avoid getting caught. We're talking about a grand conspiracy spanning decades and hundreds of people done under one of the biggest media spotlights we have.

[sharpe1027]

The patterns of flags and no flags during the last two buccaneers game is a red flag to me and looks an awful lot like the two hands to the face on Detroit last year on third down when they gave us a game and the two tripping in week 10 in Dallas/New England when I watched every gsme leading up and it was called twice in one game on third down and the only two times all year. You see enough bullshit and you start to wonder.

Respectfully, shitty calls happen every game. This is confirmation bias at it's finest. I respectfully concede there's no way to convince you otherwise, but your argument basically boils down to "it seems fishy."

It's sports man. The losers always have bad plays and calls they will be upset about. Every. Damn. Game

[th87]

We're not talking about someone lying to avoid getting caught. We're talking about a grand conspiracy spanning decades and hundreds of people done under one of the biggest media spotlights we have.

Not really - you don't need that many people. I'll use the NBA example as it's more "obvious":

- David Stern/Adam Silver has a directive (perhaps implicit, e.g. financial interest) to favor large market teams.
- Employ a few refs who will provide this skew (Dick Bavetta was notorious for calling games in ways that would extend series).
- Heavily fine any player or owner criticizing any call or questioning any ref, ensuring no accountability ever.

How many people have to be in on this arrangement?

For the most egregious example I've ever seen, see Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals. An absolute train wreck. Donaghy came out and said the games were skewed and was willing to sing about the extent. But the investigation was immediately squashed by the NBA, and they quickly concluded he was acting alone, no further investigation necessary.

[sharpe1027]

Not really - you don't need that many people. I'll use the NBA example as it's more "obvious":

- David Stern/Adam Silver has a directive (perhaps implicit, e.g. financial interest) to favor large market teams.
- Employ a few refs who will provide this skew (Dick Bavetta was notorious for calling games in ways that would extend series).
- Heavily fine any player or owner criticizing any call or questioning any ref, ensuring no accountability ever.

How many people have to be in on this arrangement?

For the most egregious example I've ever seen, see Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals. An absolute train wreck. Donaghy came out and said the games were skewed and was willing to sing about the extent. But the investigation was immediately squashed by the NBA, and they quickly concluded he was acting alone, no further investigation necessary.

Look, we can come up with any number of different flavors of what could happen. I could make an argument that you pay off players to throw games so you can win your office league.

That's not where this discussion started. What's your position on the NFL and Vegas working together to script games over the past 20+ years. This conspiracy involves players like Rodgers in addition to referees.

[sharpe1027]

Not really - you don't need that many people. I'll use the NBA example as it's more "obvious":

- David Stern/Adam Silver has a directive (perhaps implicit, e.g. financial interest) to favor large market teams.
- Employ a few refs who will provide this skew (Dick Bavetta was notorious for calling games in ways that would extend series).
- Heavily fine any player or owner criticizing any call or questioning any ref, ensuring no accountability ever.

How many people have to be in on this arrangement?

For the most egregious example I've ever seen, see Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals. An absolute train wreck. Donaghy came out and said the games were skewed and was willing to sing about the extent. But the investigation was immediately squashed by the NBA, and they quickly concluded he was acting alone, no further investigation necessary.

Donaghy rigged games for individual betting purposes. That happens.

Can you imagine the owners would do if they got wind of Stearns directly causing their team to lose out on millions of dollars in revenue that comes with a championship? They'd string him up. His personal financial incentives are somewhat insulated. He's not directly profiting from league ratings. Further, the downside of getting caught is criminal prosecution and losing his job. The incentives don't seem to be there.

[RashanGary]

I don’t really like cheddars weird conspiracy with thousands of people in it. Seems almost impossible. Ones with a couple refs though, those are possible and line up with the refereeing red flags over the years.

I’m not saying you’re an idiot for doubting it. Either side is somewhat reasonable as this can’t be proved. Just don’t come here laying on sarcasm about how stupid abyone is for questioning ref integrity or game integrity. There are some really suspicious games out there over the last couple years.

[RashanGary]

We're not talking about someone lying to avoid getting caught. We're talking about a grand conspiracy spanning decades and hundreds of people done under one of the biggest media spotlights we have.

No, you picked the most unreasonable theory and lumped us all in. Most people think it’s a couple refs and maybe in my case, Gruden and Arians. Those two seems sus.

[sharpe1027]

No, you picked the most unreasonable theory and lumped us all in. Most people think it’s a couple refs and maybe in my case, Gruden and Arians. Those two seems sus.

I responded directly to that theory because it was so ridiculous. You chose to add your theory to the discussion in a manner that seemed to be pushing back on my questions about that theory. If you are now upset that I didn't spend enough time addressing your theory, why is that my concern?

[RashanGary]

I responded directly to that theory because it was so ridiculous. You chose to add your theory to the discussion in a manner that seemed to be pushing back on my questions about that theory. If you are now upset that I didn't spend enough time addressing your theory, why is that my concern?

There is no way a rigged game has to include thousands of people. So even responding to that doesn’t involve much critical thought. Consider the possibilities yourself. Add something to the conversation.

[sharpe1027]

There is no way a rigged game has to include thousands of people. So even responding to that doesn’t involve much critical thought. Consider the possibilities yourself. Add something to the conversation.

Sure, it's ridiculous. That's why I took the bait in the first place. The entire NFL is not just WWE style scripting all games from the refs down to the players and having been done for decades. If you think that's ridiculous, then we agree on something.

Saying "add something to the conversation" is just a dick move when taken in context of where this whole thing started.

[RashanGary]

Sure, it's ridiculous. That's why I took the bait in the first place. The entire NFL is not just WWE style scripting all games from the refs down to the players and having been done for decades. If you think that's ridiculous, then we agree on something.

Saying "add something to the conversation" is just a dick move when taken in context of where this whole thing started.

Fair enough. Cheddar assumes an awful lot. I like the rigged line of thinking, the level he goes with it seems far fetched at best. But I will always defend considering possibilities when there are red flags, just not going so far as to inclide that many people in a big conspiracy. The players would all have to be acting disappointed when they knew it was rigged. Yeah, not easy to believe

[sharpe1027]

Fair enough. Cheddar assumes an awful lot. I like the rigged line of thinking, the level he goes with it seems far fetched at best. But I will always defend considering possibilities when there are red flags, just not going so far as to inclide that many people in a big conspiracy. The players would all have to be acting disappointed when they knew it was rigged. Yeah, not easy to believe

I admit there could be rigging going on in some fashion. I don't see enough to prove it one way or the other. Seems as likely it's just confirmation bias in many instances. Who knows?

[th87]

Look, we can come up with any number of different flavors of what could happen. I could make an argument that you pay off players to throw games so you can win your office league.

That's not where this discussion started. What's your position on the NFL and Vegas working together to script games over the past 20+ years. This conspiracy involves players like Rodgers in addition to referees.

Yeah, the conspiracy in your second sentence is impossible. No chance that that many people could work together in unison for decades (which is also why a certain conspiracy being alluded to in another part of this board is also impossible).

[th87]

Donaghy rigged games for individual betting purposes. That happens.

Can you imagine the owners would do if they got wind of Stearns directly causing their team to lose out on millions of dollars in revenue that comes with a championship? They'd string him up. His personal financial incentives are somewhat insulated. He's not directly profiting from league ratings. Further, the downside of getting caught is criminal prosecution and losing his job. The incentives don't seem to be there.

Donaghy was caught doing that, but had named others with different agendas, with Bavetta specifically being named as a "company man". No further investigations of these leads were ever conducted, despite having legs.

Owners have accused the league of being rigged (offhand, I remember Cuban saying so after the NBA willed his team to lose against the Heat in 2006). He was fined heavily and shut up about it, as the NBA does have the power to force a sale (and it's far more lucrative to be in than out). Jeff Van Gundy has also gotten into hot water for it. Ray Allen has also gotten fined for saying that it behooves the league to have a Lakers/Sixers finals at the expense of the Bucks. It's kind of an open secret at this point (e.g. so and so gets "superstar" calls).

The commissioner gets paid a percentage of league revenues, I believe. With more large market teams playing in the Finals, all teams benefit financially more via revenue sharing than they might have, had a small market team being in the Finals diluted said revenue sharing. I'm also not sure if it's even a crime - sports leagues are entertainment and probably has freedom to operate how they wish to maximize entertainment.

And that Kings Lakers series in 2002 is too insane to be attributed to confirmation bias. It was absolutely egregious.

[sharpe1027]

It's a federal crime to pay any type of bribe to rig a sporting contest. Full stop. Up to five years in prison. Also the potential damages for civil liability are pretty large.