Packers All-Time Team

[HarveyWallbangers]

They were very different players, which complicates the comparison. Are you excluding time spent with another team from the analysis? That would shift away from Dotson.

Yes, for the most part--although when it's close it's probably something that comes to mind. For example, Charles Woodson's AV with the Packers is below Mark Lee and right about the same as Ken Ellis. However, Woodson was such a stud here and elsewhere that I didn't consider moving either of those guys above him. That probably has less to do with how he did with another team and more about how dominant he was with the Packers at his peak. I used AV as a baseline for figuring who the top players were, but Pro Bowl nods, All-Pros, championships, legacy, etc. come more into play.

Mark Lee and John Anderson were the two guys who stood out when using career AV. Lee's career AV puts him well ahead of most CBs on the team. Same with Anderson at LB. However, neither guy was a star and it's hard for me to think of them as deserving to be on the Packers All-Time team. What swayed me for Anderson was his All-1980's second team nod. I could probably find a way to do the same with Lee.

[George Cumby]

Wish Patler was around to put in his .02.

[sharpe1027]

Wish Patler was around to put in his .02.

X2

[smuggler]

Ezra Johnson is a player worth considering. Greg Koch (if I'm right on the spelling) and Bryce Paup.

[QBME]

ST

Crosby was an easy selection. Masthay was the best of a bad group. We haven't had many good punters. I wanted to find a way to get Travis Williams on the team as a returner, but his career was so short.

Only played with the Pack a few years, but Don Chandler was pretty good.

Also, Travis "The Road Runner" Williams was pretty exciting - especially against the Rams, two returns for TD's, I forget the year.

[sharpe1027]

Returner...Desmond Howard. I don't care that it wasn't a long enough career with the Packers.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It just kind of hit me that we lost Willie Davis, Willie Wood, and Herb Adderley last year--three Hall of Famers. I think Dave Robinson and Tom Brown are the only defensive starters left from the last Lombardi team.

[Fritz]

Two players you think of as "borderline" are, for me, not really close: Levens and McGee. Dorsey Levens was a solid guy, but that's all he was. In my opinion does not even belong in the conversation. I was glad though that you recognized how good Ahman Green really was. Best combination of speed and power since I don't know who.

Max McGee was a great story as a character, but there are so many other receivers in Green Bay history who were so much better. All the receivers you listed are, to me, light years ahead of McGee. He was good, don't get me wrong, but not that special. If you gave me a choice to start an in-their-prime Max McGee or Robert Brooks, I'd take Brooks every time.

[Upnorth]

Levels gets helped the team he played on as our passing game was so good. I remember liking but not loving levens.
Green on the other hand is my favorite packer from the 2000's.

I know I already said this but great work harv thanks.

[Fritz]

I was pretty young when he played but I'll always remember my dad calling him 'effing fumble fingers', but with the actual f-word.

I don't recall him being a big fumbler, but I don't have numbers. I was about twelve or so when he was in his prime in Green Bay, and he reminds me, when I see old footage of him, of a slightly-less-talented version of Earl Campbell. He could run people over and he had pretty decent vision.

Once he got hurt, though, that was it. I think it was an ACL, which in those days meant the end of your career.

His running mate for a year, I think, was a guy named MacArthur Lane, whom they acquired, from what I believe at the time were the St. Louis Cardinals. He was the only running back I ever saw in Green Bay who tried (and I think completed) the halfback option.

[run pMc]

OT

Gregg might be the best OT ever. Clifton and Bakhtiari are the next tier. Clifton didn't get as much recognition as Bakh, but he was nearly as good and played for 12 years. The next three (Tauscher, Ruettgers, Bulaga) were all close. I think they all deserve a spot on the team. Without his injury, Bulaga probably is 4th on this list, but he still gets the last spot here despite the injuries.

Bulaga over Earl Dotson -- interesting. Can't say I'd argue with either choice. Agree with the rest. Ruettgers was a good player.

[Fritz]

Bulaga over Earl Dotson -- interesting. Can't say I'd argue with either choice. Agree with the rest. Ruettgers was a good player.

I liked Dotson - I really did - but that dude had more false start penalties in half a dozen games than the rest of the offensive line combined had for a season. I've never seen anything like it. I recall that maybe he had a hearing problem or something? But on that alone, I might take Bulaga in his prime. ANd Reuttgers was a good player.

Clifton was not a great run blocker but he was as smooth a pass blocker as you could draw up.

One guy I don't know if Harv mentioned - I haven't tracked this thread too closely - was Johnny Gray. He was a heckuva safety.

[Joemailman]

I liked Dotson - I really did - but that dude had more false start penalties in half a dozen games than the rest of the offensive line combined had for a season. I've never seen anything like it. I recall that maybe he had a hearing problem or something? But on that alone, I might take Bulaga in his prime. ANd Reuttgers was a good player.

Clifton was not a great run blocker but he was as smooth a pass blocker as you could draw up.

One guy I don't know if Harv mentioned - I haven't tracked this thread too closely - was Johnny Gray. He was a heckuva safety.

Dotson had loss of hearing in his left ear. So, in a noisy stadium, especially the dome in Minnesota he couldn't hear the signals at all.

[HarveyWallbangers]

One guy I don't know if Harv mentioned - I haven't tracked this thread too closely - was Johnny Gray. He was a heckuva safety.

Here's what I wrote, and thanks for asking.

There were some guys that started a lot of games for the Packers, but were never Pro Bowl caliber players (CB Lee, S Johnnie Gray, S Mark Murphy). I left most of them off--except for John Anderson. I felt he had done just enough, for now, to make the team.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Besides WR, maybe the toughest decision I had was Al Harris vs. Tramon Williams. Who would you take? I think I'd like to go back on the Harris decision. When I think of Tramon, I think of that Super Bowl run--where he was special. Gave saving interception vs. Vick and the Eagles, the crucial pick six vs. Ryan and the Falcons, the game ending pass deflection against Big Ben and the Steelers.