Packers 2021 draft class

[Bretsky]

REAL QUESTION

WHO in here would have picked Stokes over Christian Barmore ? or did we just go Need ? Need is what I thought we did round 2 for sure over BPA

[Joemailman]

REAL QUESTION

WHO in here would have picked Stokes over Christian Barmore ? or did we just go Need ? Need is what I thought we did round 2 for sure over BPA

I figured them both as early 2nd round guys. I think they probably saw Stokes as a guy with more upside. Myers might have been BPA. He went about where he was expected to go. They may have wanted to Go OL there and Myers was higher on their board than any OT's at that point.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I have no problem with Stokes over Barmore. Pretty comparable prospects. Barmore went #38, so he obviously wasn’t as highly rated by teams as thought.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I figured them both as early 2nd round guys. I think they probably saw Stokes as a guy with more upside. Myers might have been BPA. He went about where he was expected to go. They may have wanted to Go OL there and Myers was higher on their board than any OT's at that point.

I wish there wasn’t as big of a run on OTs as there was (I was hoping Radunz would fall a bit more), but Jenkins gave the Packers flexibility to take OT or interior OL there.

[Bretsky]

I wish there wasn’t as big of a run on OTs as there was (I was hoping Radunz would fall a bit more), but Jenkins gave the Packers flexibility to take OT or interior OL there.

ya; I might be jaded

Three of the guys I would have loved to see with our round 2 pick were snapped up in 3 of the four picks ahead of us

[sharpe1027]

It’s literally that the average receiver is good and the average DL is bad. There are more good receivers and less quality DL. Why do they have to be equal?

Because your categorization of a bad DL is subjective and I don't understand how you get there. If a player is better than half the other starters at their position, I'd argue that makes them good by any objective way of assessing them.

It's semantics, but I think it's important because it gets to the reason why they put more value in drafting DL. Sorry if this is too far down the rabbit hole.

[smuggler]

I do feel like some of the timing was hard on Green Bay. The Ravens taking the Minnesota WR a few spots before us in Round 1 felt a little like Justin Jefferson last year, though I am not saying Bateman will be nearly as effective as JJ was a a rook. Then, Basham went right before us in the next round and I had a feeling Green Bay would be interested in him, but not nearly as strong as I felt about Bateman.

What JH is saying is that, unlike a receiver, most DL do not have that big of an impact on the game. I agree that you only judge a player against his peers, so the "average" receiver does have more of an impact on a game than the "average" lineman, but essentially the two of you are just arguing semantics and really concepts do not matter. Wins matter.

[Bretsky]

I was listening to Wilde and Tausch today and have been a lot lately

Apparently there were two WR's GB was really trying to trade up for last year. One was Justin Jefferson. I think Aiyuk was the other but they didn't say today.

Wilde also outlined several things that AROD really wasn't fond of over the last couple years. The Kumerow cut was one of them; he also noted several of the GB Packers coaches were really unhappy WhitewaterJ got cut. Perception was he was better than some of the Gooters draftjags. What a mess

[Freak Out]

So they fire Gutebag if that brings Arod back until he retires. Then what? Who takes over and basically nobody will feel safe until he leaves? lol

[Sparkey]

If he was better, and I don't know either way, but the fact he is still bouncing around on futures contracts at the age of 29 suggests that he was/is Just A Guy as well...

J

[call_me_ishmael]

[QUOTE=HarveyWallbangers;1091424]I wish there wasn’t as big of a run on OTs as there was (I was hoping Radunz would fall a bit more), but Jenkins gave the Packers flexibility to take OT or interior OL there.[What/QUOTE]

What is your view on the center? Physically he seemed unusually tall for a center to my untrained and uninformed eye. Hopefully he is a stud.

[call_me_ishmael]

I do feel like some of the timing was hard on Green Bay. The Ravens taking the Minnesota WR a few spots before us in Round 1 felt a little like Justin Jefferson last year, though I am not saying Bateman will be nearly as effective as JJ was a a rook. Then, Basham went right before us in the next round and I had a feeling Green Bay would be interested in him, but not nearly as strong as I felt about Bateman.

What JH is saying is that, unlike a receiver, most DL do not have that big of an impact on the game. I agree that you only judge a player against his peers, so the "average" receiver does have more of an impact on a game than the "average" lineman, but essentially the two of you are just arguing semantics and really concepts do not matter. Wins matter.

I pretty much agree with this. I am totally good with the CB though. Dude only has to be a CB 2. I think/hope he can be that.

[sharpe1027]

I do feel like some of the timing was hard on Green Bay. The Ravens taking the Minnesota WR a few spots before us in Round 1 felt a little like Justin Jefferson last year, though I am not saying Bateman will be nearly as effective as JJ was a a rook. Then, Basham went right before us in the next round and I had a feeling Green Bay would be interested in him, but not nearly as strong as I felt about Bateman.

What JH is saying is that, unlike a receiver, most DL do not have that big of an impact on the game. I agree that you only judge a player against his peers, so the "average" receiver does have more of an impact on a game than the "average" lineman, but essentially the two of you are just arguing semantics and really concepts do not matter. Wins matter.

Trying to tease out why DL get drafted so much/high if most of them don't contribute as much as WRs. Could it be the difference between the top couple DL and the average DL means more to winning than the difference between the top WRs and an average WR?

[smuggler]

I believe statistically you're better served by having a top-10 WR on your roster than a top-10 DL. BUT, you still need capable players at all positions. And you have to consider that people are flawed (including, if not especially, football decision makers), the draft is (to a large part) about any player's future and not so much their present, and GMs don't have all the information to make the correct decision in the first place.

[sharpe1027]

I believe statistically you're better served by having a top-10 WR on your roster than a top-10 DL. BUT, you still need capable players at all positions. And you have to consider that people are flawed (including, if not especially, football decision makers), the draft is (to a large part) about any player's future and not so much their present, and GMs don't have all the information to make the correct decision in the first place.

So, they draft more DL than they should because they are flawed and don't have enough information? I guess it's possible.

The scenario I posed, though isn't just top ten versus too ten at each position. It's the potential improvement over the existing roster. If you already have two top ten at a position, getting a third is less important to winning than if you have the worst two starters in the league. Thus, my thought that maybe GMs see more to gain in upgrading from an average DL than at some other positions.