Official 2021 OTA/Mini-camp Thread

[sharpe1027]

Tex, you're consistent. Everything and anything with Rodgers requires rose colored glasses. No arguments from me about him being one of the all time greats. I just don't agree with how extreme you go. He does nothing wrong. All bad performance is someone else's fault. All good is primarily him. I like to think I have a more measures assessment. He doesn't walk in water.

[texaspackerbacker]

And why the hell would you or anybody else be negative about the guy most responsible for bringing us fans so much wonderfulness for over a decade now? All good IS primarily him hahahaha.

[sharpe1027]

Being objective means you can see the good with the bad. Call it negative if you like. Another word for it is "truth."

[red]

There is a difference between making 3 reads then unloading all within 3 seconds vs. making 4 reads, not liking them and taking a sack.

years ago, after the last super bowl win. i got to by on the sideline during training camp. fat mike had a shot clock on the sideline. rodgers had, i believe, 2 seconds to make all his reads then get the ball out

somehow over the years that obviously went away

but yeah, that is a thing, make your decision and get the ball out, fast

[run pMc]

I don't think it took Rodgers time to learn so much as it took LaFleur time to realize he needed to modify his scheme to accomodate Rodgers' way of doing things. I'd say 80-90% of the "change" - that evil word - was, thankfully, LaFleur, not Rodgers. And what change there was from Rodgers was the result of better route running either because of better Receiver personnel or better designed pass routes. Somebody made the kinda weird comment about Rodgers holding the ball and getting sacked ...... is that really happening? Hell no. If anything, he's sacked less than most QBs, certainly less than most QBs who get the pass rush pressure he consistently gets. And of course, he does that without throwing interceptions far better than anybody in the history of football. THAT more than any other single factor is why he is the GOAT.

Remember several years ago, there was ignorant speculation that Rodgers couldn't throw the deep ball anymore? like his arm was weakening with age or something? Clearly, when there got back to being receivers open deep, he threw the deep ball. Yeah, partly LaFleur's scheming makes that possible, but having receivers like MVS, Lazard, and Tonyan helped too. Davante Adams suddenly got better when those guys came along and developed.

Some of that would apply with Love also, (hopefully 4-5 years or more from now), but regardless of how high his ceiling is - which nobody knows as of now, it's very doubtful he will ever be quite like Rodgers.

If you think Rodgers is the GOAT, that's fine. Criteria for that is fuzzy, and that's a different thread topic.
If you think change is an evil word, I'm sure there's a cabin somewhere in the woods with no electricity, plumbing or Internet might suit you. Can't have progress or improvement without change. Again, another topic for another thread.

I would say you have it backwards -- Rodgers got the MVP because he bought into MLF's scheme, not because MLF let Rodgers run things his way. All Rodgers knew before MLF was M3, which relied on receivers winning their matchups and getting open. When the receiving talent took a nosedive Rodgers was scrambling for time (and sometimes his life) and holding the ball too long. That was the offense of the 2017 and 2018 seasons. I love his historically low interception numbers too, but he often held the ball too long waiting for an open receiver vs. throwing a guy open in 2018. MLF's scheme gets the receivers open, and gets the ball out of the QB's hands quickly. Rodgers didn't get sacked much last year because he got the ball out (there are stats to back this up). So I'd say Rodgers and the scheme changed, and the offense was better for it. The big change from 2019 season vs. 2020 was Rodgers (and the rest of the team) getting more accustomed to the scheme, but also buying into it. MLF took out some of the audibles and things Rodgers liked to do, and often did, with M3's offense.

I don't know who was saying the couldn't throw deep; it certainly wasn't me. I will say until last year he had several years where his accuracy wasn't what it was, and while his arm isn't what it was either it's still plenty good. Go back to 2010 and 2011 and there's a stark difference to his 2018 and 2019 throws.
I can recall him throwing a lot of deep incomplete sideline throws to covered receivers at the end of the M3 era, often on 3rd and 3, which drove me crazy.

Notice at no point am I blaming the OL. Their OL has been pretty solid most of Rodgers' career. He's had the likes of Sitton, Lang, Wells, Tauscher, Clifton, Bahk, Linsley, and Jenkins blocking for him, and I'd argue have fielded better overall OLs then the rest of the NFCN.

Love will never be like Rodgers. Nobody will. I'm just hoping he'll be good enough to start and win playoff games.

[Bretsky]

If you think Rodgers is the GOAT, that's fine. Criteria for that is fuzzy, and that's a different thread topic.
If you think change is an evil word, I'm sure there's a cabin somewhere in the woods with no electricity, plumbing or Internet might suit you. Can't have progress or improvement without change. Again, another topic for another thread.

I would say you have it backwards -- Rodgers got the MVP because he bought into MLF's scheme, not because MLF let Rodgers run things his way. All Rodgers knew before MLF was M3, which relied on receivers winning their matchups and getting open. When the receiving talent took a nosedive Rodgers was scrambling for time (and sometimes his life) and holding the ball too long. That was the offense of the 2017 and 2018 seasons. I love his historically low interception numbers too, but he often held the ball too long waiting for an open receiver vs. throwing a guy open in 2018. MLF's scheme gets the receivers open, and gets the ball out of the QB's hands quickly. Rodgers didn't get sacked much last year because he got the ball out (there are stats to back this up). So I'd say Rodgers and the scheme changed, and the offense was better for it. The big change from 2019 season vs. 2020 was Rodgers (and the rest of the team) getting more accustomed to the scheme, but also buying into it. MLF took out some of the audibles and things Rodgers liked to do, and often did, with M3's offense.

I don't know who was saying the couldn't throw deep; it certainly wasn't me. I will say until last year he had several years where his accuracy wasn't what it was, and while his arm isn't what it was either it's still plenty good. Go back to 2010 and 2011 and there's a stark difference to his 2018 and 2019 throws.
I can recall him throwing a lot of deep incomplete sideline throws to covered receivers at the end of the M3 era, often on 3rd and 3, which drove me crazy.

Notice at no point am I blaming the OL. Their OL has been pretty solid most of Rodgers' career. He's had the likes of Sitton, Lang, Wells, Tauscher, Clifton, Bahk, Linsley, and Jenkins blocking for him, and I'd argue have fielded better overall OLs then the rest of the NFCN.

Love will never be like Rodgers. Nobody will. I'm just hoping he'll be good enough to start and win playoff games.

MATTY is everything GUTEBAG and MARCIA are NOT . Rodgers and Matty succeed because Matty is a master at brewing positive chemistry and making Rodgers feel like part of the team...the process....and a part of something special...a great atmosphere of success.

This isn't all Matty, and it's not all AROD.......it's both of them that get credit

[texaspackerbacker]

If you think Rodgers is the GOAT, that's fine. Criteria for that is fuzzy, and that's a different thread topic.
If you think change is an evil word, I'm sure there's a cabin somewhere in the woods with no electricity, plumbing or Internet might suit you. Can't have progress or improvement without change. Again, another topic for another thread.

I would say you have it backwards -- Rodgers got the MVP because he bought into MLF's scheme, not because MLF let Rodgers run things his way. All Rodgers knew before MLF was M3, which relied on receivers winning their matchups and getting open. When the receiving talent took a nosedive Rodgers was scrambling for time (and sometimes his life) and holding the ball too long. That was the offense of the 2017 and 2018 seasons. I love his historically low interception numbers too, but he often held the ball too long waiting for an open receiver vs. throwing a guy open in 2018. MLF's scheme gets the receivers open, and gets the ball out of the QB's hands quickly. Rodgers didn't get sacked much last year because he got the ball out (there are stats to back this up). So I'd say Rodgers and the scheme changed, and the offense was better for it. The big change from 2019 season vs. 2020 was Rodgers (and the rest of the team) getting more accustomed to the scheme, but also buying into it. MLF took out some of the audibles and things Rodgers liked to do, and often did, with M3's offense.

I don't know who was saying the couldn't throw deep; it certainly wasn't me. I will say until last year he had several years where his accuracy wasn't what it was, and while his arm isn't what it was either it's still plenty good. Go back to 2010 and 2011 and there's a stark difference to his 2018 and 2019 throws.
I can recall him throwing a lot of deep incomplete sideline throws to covered receivers at the end of the M3 era, often on 3rd and 3, which drove me crazy.

Notice at no point am I blaming the OL. Their OL has been pretty solid most of Rodgers' career. He's had the likes of Sitton, Lang, Wells, Tauscher, Clifton, Bahk, Linsley, and Jenkins blocking for him, and I'd argue have fielded better overall OLs then the rest of the NFCN.

Love will never be like Rodgers. Nobody will. I'm just hoping he'll be good enough to start and win playoff games.

Bretsky nailed it about LaFleur's primary contribution. I'm not saying his scheme is nothing, but I am saying that he thankfully subordinated his ego by adjusting his scheme to fit the way Rodgers has played with excellence for so long. He did tweak the routes and throw in the misdirection, etc. to help receivers get open, but when we first heard about LaFleur was coming here, people talked like he was all about "run first". Fortunately, it didn't turn out that way.

You don't remember the stupid speculation several years ago that he couldn't throw deep anymore? I didn't mean to imply it was you hahahaha.

As for the "change is evil" thing, I'm not gonna explain that this side of FYI - not wanting to get burned over the evil p word. Suffice it to say, though, it ain't "electricity, plumbing or Internet" that I'm negative about hahahaha.

[bobblehead]

MATTY is everything GUTEBAG and MARCIA are NOT . Rodgers and Matty succeed because Matty is a master at brewing positive chemistry and making Rodgers feel like part of the team...the process....and a part of something special...a great atmosphere of success.

This isn't all Matty, and it's not all AROD.......it's both of them that get credit

How do you know? Maybe this is all brewed up because Matty has been aggressive in insisting Rodgers follow the script and then when he didn't maybe Matty asked Gutes to draft Love if possible. Maybe when we failed to run the ball in the 4th quarter of the NFCC this year matty went off on ARod privately and that is what started this rift. Or maybe Matty was the one who abandon the run and Rodgers was pissed about it.

Bottom line, we just can't know what is going on behind the scenes. We can gather evidence and make the best guess, but with this fiasco, I have very little to go on other than Arod is doing all this for his man crush Jake Kumerow....which I find unlikely to be the truth.

[bobblehead]

Bretsky nailed it about LaFleur's primary contribution. I'm not saying his scheme is nothing, but I am saying that he thankfully subordinated his ego by adjusting his scheme to fit the way Rodgers has played with excellence for so long. He did tweak the routes and throw in the misdirection, etc. to help receivers get open, but when we first heard about LaFleur was coming here, people talked like he was all about "run first". Fortunately, it didn't turn out that way.

You don't remember the stupid speculation several years ago that he couldn't throw deep anymore? I didn't mean to imply it was you hahahaha.

As for the "change is evil" thing, I'm not gonna explain that this side of FYI - not wanting to get burned over the evil p word. Suffice it to say, though, it ain't "electricity, plumbing or Internet" that I'm negative about hahahaha.

No one said he was/is run first. We said he would actually call running plays to tighten up a defense. They are running his offense, and rumors were that Rodgers resisted it originally. As usual, you see the world the way your fantasized Walter Mitty mind wants to and not necessarily they way it actually is.

[Bretsky]

How do you know? Maybe this is all brewed up because Matty has been aggressive in insisting Rodgers follow the script and then when he didn't maybe Matty asked Gutes to draft Love if possible. Maybe when we failed to run the ball in the 4th quarter of the NFCC this year matty went off on ARod privately and that is what started this rift. Or maybe Matty was the one who abandon the run and Rodgers was pissed about it.

Bottom line, we just can't know what is going on behind the scenes. We can gather evidence and make the best guess, but with this fiasco, I have very little to go on other than Arod is doing all this for his man crush Jake Kumerow....which I find unlikely to be the truth.

Do you really believe anything you wrote here ?

[Upnorth]

Do you really believe anything you wrote here ?

It's as likely as almost anything else I have read and has about as much evidence to support it to outsiders like ourselves.

[RashanGary]

My impression is Lafleur adapted with Rodgers and did some things differently. Rodgers also adapted to Lafleur and did some things differently. Lafleur also adapted to Aaron Jones and ran more inside zone. And Aaron Jones adapted to Lafleur and worked on running pass routes.

It’s a combination of scheme and players. All good coaches adapt their scheme to fit the players. All good players try to expand their game to do more in the scheme.

I have no doubt that it’s both and probably somewhere close to equal parts.

[RashanGary]

Gute also built good teams. And Murphy created the whole structure that this success has come under. It’s quality people trying to succeed in a competitive environment and I think from Murphy to Gute to Lafleur to Rodgers, everyone is committed to winning and they’re really close to being the best of 32 teams. Good organization imho. And with that, they might have a little adjustment period after Rodgers but i think if you have a good GM you’ll build a good team. And I believe the Packers have a good GM.

[bobblehead]

Do you really believe anything you wrote here ?

About as much as I believe anything that anyone else rights. And not I used the word maybe a lot. And as I said at the end, you gather as much info as you can and try to reach a conclusion. My conclusion is that this is ALL about drafting Love and not so much because Jake was cut loose.

I questioned your thesis because you stated with certainty that MiLF and Arod are copacetic. I'm not at all convinced that is the case. My very first maybe was mostly serious. The rest are all things I wonder about but can't get an answer for. 2 of them are polar opposites so I certainly don't "believe" what I wrote, but again, I wrote them as possibilities. No, I don't think Rodgers is pissed that MiLF abandoned the run game.

[bobblehead]

My impression is Lafleur adapted with Rodgers and did some things differently. Rodgers also adapted to Lafleur and did some things differently. Lafleur also adapted to Aaron Jones and ran more inside zone. And Aaron Jones adapted to Lafleur and worked on running pass routes.

It’s a combination of scheme and players. All good coaches adapt their scheme to fit the players. All good players try to expand their game to do more in the scheme.

I have no doubt that it’s both and probably somewhere close to equal parts.

Jeezus have you grown up. What happened to the angry young man known as Nick Collins?

Oh, and excellent post and read on the situation. Props.