Are there HOLES in our LEADERSHIP that are concerning ???

[Bretsky]

OK, I know this will be anti Kool Aide

But at bare minimum one has to question the current leadership of the GB Packers over all of this

The national media is all over this and ponders how we let it get to here. Add Mike Holmgren to that group recently well. Some recent Packers who are well thought of as well.

MARCIA MARCIA MARCIA................yall know my view on him. But do we need a strong leader there who can drive the train smoothly ? Is that part of his job to anticipate and deal with conflict effectively ?

You know what happens if Barry Alvarez is the head of the packers ? I'll tell you what does not happen. This shit would not happen. Mike Holmgen recently basically said...this shit absolutely cannot happen. Tauscher has provided great perspective

It seems to be that neither TT or Gutebag were strong leaders. Both were hired IMO because they were glorfied scouts. And perhaps dam good at that part of the game.

And if that is what you are going to hire, which is fine, do we need a strong leader at the top of the organization to steer this ship ?

[th87]

All I gotta say is that if it's between Gute and Rodgers, Gute can GTFO. And I like Gute.

But GMs are a dime a dozen. Tons of people could do his job. There are only like two people in the universe who can do what Rodgers does. Choice is easy.

[Packers4Glory]

I just don’t understand or never could how this could happen. I mean we know the major catalyst but how or maybe why is the better question

[Joemailman]

This might not be all on Gute. Russ Ball is the Head of Football Operations. Gutekunst as General Manager is the head of Player Personnel. Both report to Murphy. What I don't know is to what extent Gute would have the freedom to offer Rodgers whatever kind of contract he would need to solve this. Surely Gute would have a lot of input, but so would Ball.

[sharpe1027]

Lots of speculation on what's really going on. It's easy to opine from the sidelines. Nobody is going say it SHOULD ever get to this point.

I'll say this though, if the choice is between Rodgers and a GM, Rodgers is in the wrong because that shouldn't be his demand.

[Sparkey]

I've said this before but I'll say it again. You can never fire a GM because a player wants you to do that. Especially if it relates to roster construction. A lot of those moves have to do with salary cap ramifications and Rodgers contract is the biggest reason for those same decisions.

[th87]

I've said this before but I'll say it again. You can never fire a GM because a player wants you to do that. Especially if it relates to roster construction. A lot of those moves have to do with salary cap ramifications and Rodgers contract is the biggest reason for those same decisions.

If that player is the best in the universe at what he does and the GM is good but replaceable, I don't see why not.

If players complain about unfair treatment, they should try to become the best in the universe.

[sharpe1027]

If that player is the best in the universe at what he does and the GM is good but replaceable, I don't see why not.

If players complain about unfair treatment, they should try to become the best in the universe.

You don't negotiate with terrorist for a valid reason. Hint, it's not about what happens the first time.

[King Friday]

Murphy is the problem for me. He is the person who should be supervising the entire process. To me, he is solely focused on making money and Titletown and not spending enough time over the actual football team.

[Packers4Glory]

Murphy is the problem for me. He is the person who should be supervising the entire process. To me, he is solely focused on making money and Titletown and not spending enough time over the actual football team.

I agree. Ultimately it falls on him. He signed off on the pick

[Sparkey]

If that player is the best in the universe at what he does and the GM is good but replaceable, I don't see why not.

If players complain about unfair treatment, they should try to become the best in the universe.

First, you assume their complaints are valid.

Secondly, you assume being the best as a player equates to being the same as a talent evaluator.

Lastly, you seem to think that the GM, coach and players all have the same goals. Coaches and players are tasked with winning now. The GM is tasked with supplementing the now while also planning on the future.

The Packers as an organization are far ahead of most teams in that regard. Mostly because they have been able to navigate the difficult job of transitioning QB's. But also because they have done good job of team building around those QB's.

[Packers4Glory]

Not good enough of a job. Constantly swinging and missing in defense draft picks and or finding a finding who can maximize the talent in that side of the ball. This isn’t just a Gute problem. Its a running problem during Rodgers tenure.

[texaspackerbacker]

Good points, Bretsky, and wonder of wonders, I totally agree with th87 for a rare instance.

I once had a weird conspiratorial idea that Ted Thompson's mission or goal or whatever was to intentionally drag the Packers franchise down so much that it became unpopular and ripe for movement to Los Angeles or some other big market, and that getting lucky with the Aaron Rodgers pick derailed that plan.

As unique and nice in a lot of ways it is to have the thousands of mostly local people as team owners, the downside of that is the perceived need is to bring in outsiders - people with little or no inherent loyalty to Green Bay or Wisconsin - to run the team. That's how you end up with Murphy, Gutekunst, Ted Thompson, even Wolf. Old Judge Parins supposedly wasn't a football guy, but he was (I think) a Green Bay guy.

The diametric opposite I see all the time here in Texas is Jerry Jones - the owner and basically one man ruler except maybe for his son - of the Cowboys. True, he was a small time college football player ages ago, but basically he's a helluva lot more like any of us fans in here than he is like a normal pro football executive, and I prefer it that way. Who among us, deep down, doesn't think he could do a better job of running the Packers than the leadership the team has had? I certainly do. I don't mean on field coaching - you need an expert for that. but personnel matters, trades, drafting, capology, I'd take somebody like almost any of us or like Jerry Jones over the professionals who are currently fucking things up big time.

[sharpe1027]

Jerry may be a charismatic, larger the life, personality, but he sure as shit hasn't been delivering the goods on the field of late. The Packers have consistently out performed the Boys.

I'm pretty sure I know your response already. You'll attribute the Packers' success to getting lucky with Rodgers. Regardless, that doesn't explain Jerry's failures.

[Joemailman]

Good points, Bretsky, and wonder of wonders, I totally agree with th87 for a rare instance.

I once had a weird conspiratorial idea that Ted Thompson's mission or goal or whatever was to intentionally drag the Packers franchise down so much that it became unpopular and ripe for movement to Los Angeles or some other big market, and that getting lucky with the Aaron Rodgers pick derailed that plan.

As unique and nice in a lot of ways it is to have the thousands of mostly local people as team owners, the downside of that is the perceived need is to bring in outsiders - people with little or no inherent loyalty to Green Bay or Wisconsin - to run the team. That's how you end up with Murphy, Gutekunst, Ted Thompson, even Wolf. Old Judge Parins supposedly wasn't a football guy, but he was (I think) a Green Bay guy.

The diametric opposite I see all the time here in Texas is Jerry Jones - the owner and basically one man ruler except maybe for his son - of the Cowboys. True, he was a small time college football player ages ago, but basically he's a helluva lot more like any of us fans in here than he is like a normal pro football executive, and I prefer it that way. Who among us, deep down, doesn't think he could do a better job of running the Packers than the leadership the team has had? I certainly do. I don't mean on field coaching - you need an expert for that. but personnel matters, trades, drafting, capology, I'd take somebody like almost any of us or like Jerry Jones over the professionals who are currently fucking things up big time.

The only thing he ever did right was hire Jimmy Johnson. Jerruh's teams have won 3 playoff games in the last 20 years. They are 3-9 against the Packers in that time. Just sayin'.