Lets talk Trenches

[bobblehead]

The game is won in the trenches. That's a fact. You can have Walter Payton with no blocking and lose. You can have world class DBs and if you can't get to the QB or stop the run you lose.

OL: Jenkins, Bak, Turner, Kelly is the deepest and best the T position has been in my lifetime. Just imagine if my boy Yosh ever develops (I said now or never a month ago and I'm leaning towards never given the depth of this OL).

The youth movement in the interior has begun. Typically we are having "competition" to see who can actually be serviceable. This year the competition is a bunch of guys we know can be serviceable hoping to find really good. If the rookie C isn't up to the task then Patrick has proven he can be an NFL center. Runyan, emerging Braden, and the flexibility of Turner and Jenkins will allow for a massive group up front. This offense will be just as good as last season even if Bak sits til week 6.

DL: I'm finally excited about some prospects. Keke has flashed and TaDarrell is a very large man. He is a much more athletic Lancaster. I don't expect dominance from this group, but finally putting some talent around Clark should elevate this group to a level we haven't seen in several seasons. I still think we will sign a veteran somewhere along the line as there are a couple rotational guys who can play out there still. Geno Atkins just screams week 8 aquisition. Shelby Harris is a guy who can eat some snaps without costing much. A few others.

Its football season y'all, time to get over your hangover from the NBA championship and get excited.

[texaspackerbacker]

Payton is a bad example. He needed a lot of blocking. Try Barry Sanders or O.J. or Jim Brown, guys who ran around, past, or right over people with limited blocking.

My point is that I disagree with your premise about the trenches. You win with high powered offense that can get by with mediocre blocking - an excellent passing game and enough run game to serve as a threat or counter. On D, I'd say the D Line is also the least of it. If you have shutdown Corners or near it, pass rush from OLBs and sideline to sideline tackling machines at ILB, you can get by with plugs like Lowry and Lancaster in the D Line.

That being said, it sure doesn't hurt to have good linemen on both sides of the ball, and I basically agree with your assessment of what the Packers have and probable improvement.

[call_me_ishmael]

If the trenches are as good as advertised and they stay healthy, the Packers will win the super bowl.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Cletidius Clark is overrated and overpaid. Doesn’t consistently dominate the trench. Can’t stonewall the run. Below average bull/pass rusher.

Any fat guy off the streets of Baltimore can do what Clark does. Packers woulda been better off using the frogskins they’ve spent on Clark on a MOFO ILB, like Fred Warner.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Payton is a bad example. He needed a lot of blocking. Try Barry Sanders or O.J. or Jim Brown, guys who ran around, past, or right over people with limited blocking.

My point is that I disagree with your premise about the trenches. You win with high powered offense that can get by with mediocre blocking - an excellent passing game and enough run game to serve as a threat or counter. On D, I'd say the D Line is also the least of it. If you have shutdown Corners or near it, pass rush from OLBs and sideline to sideline tackling machines at ILB, you can get by with plugs like Lowry and Lancaster in the D Line.

That being said, it sure doesn't hurt to have good linemen on both sides of the ball, and I basically agree with your assessment of what the Packers have and probable improvement.

Affirmative.

[CaptainKickass]

I still think we will sign a veteran somewhere along the line as there are a couple rotational guys who can play out there still. Geno Atkins just screams week 8 aquisition. Shelby Harris is a guy who can eat some snaps without costing much. A few others.

Did Damon "Snacks" Harrison crunch 'n' munch his way out of the league? I recall some clamoring for him last season but pretty sure he didn't even have time to get up to speed.

[Sparkey]

Affirmative.

TPB and APB in harmonic unity

[Fritz]

I agree that the offensive line looks as deep and promising as a porn star's vagina, but the defensive line depth looks shakier. I am hopeful for Slaton but at this point is all promise and hope and Kenny Clark.

[CaptainKickass]

The Offensive Line may very well be... well... offensive! Ginormous or Hugantic at the very least. I wonder how this OLine size compares around the league?

Josh Myers (6-5, 310) and Dennis Kelly (6-8, 321) really turns this into an intimidating group. And Ben Braden (6-6, 329) is another giant who could play a lot of snaps. The average of the (assumed) top eight guys along the offensive line is somewhere around 6-5 and 314 pounds.

I mean, they might be giants.

[RashanGary]

I’m a big believer in trench play.

On offense I would say it’s about 1/3 of the total pie. QB is 1/3. Skill players are 1/3. OL is 1/3.

On defense I would say it’s about 40%.



I’m not nearly as sold on the offense or defense as you, bobble. Meyer and Runyan have a lot to prove. I don’t think Jenkins or Turner are very good at LT.

Defense we have Clark, then borderline rotational guys inside. Z, P and Gary are a top notch threesome. It’s good but not great.


We have a chance at a SB but not an elite trench team IMHO.

[bobblehead]

I’m a big believer in trench play.

On offense I would say it’s about 1/3 of the total pie. QB is 1/3. Skill players are 1/3. OL is 1/3.

On defense I would say it’s about 40%.



I’m not nearly as sold on the offense or defense as you, bobble. Meyer and Runyan have a lot to prove. I don’t think Jenkins or Turner are very good at LT.

Defense we have Clark, then borderline rotational guys inside. Z, P and Gary are a top notch threesome. It’s good but not great.


We have a chance at a SB but not an elite trench team IMHO.

I think the OL is elite considering the depth. You say Jenkins isn't very good at LT? I can only go on the limited amount of time he has spent there. Given full camp I think he is going to be really good. So good its going to cause a problem when its time to extend him. If Meyers isn't as good as McCarren thinks then Patrick will likely be the center. Braden and Runyan are rotating because they are both good not because they are desperately hoping one pans out.

The DL I didn't mean to oversell, but compared to years past I like the depth guys more than I have. And I still believe they may add a body if they think there is still value to be had by doing so. There are still 3-5 guys out there who can play. Plus we have very large OLB. We run nearly a hybrid 3.5-3.5 with their size.

[Upnorth]

Until actual game action Meyer is a maybe. Every year some coaches talk up some picks that arent very good. Let's hope Meyers isn't one of them.
Runyon was ok last year. Hope he made a jump. Jenkins and Turner are good until bahk gets back

[texaspackerbacker]

I’m a big believer in trench play.

On offense I would say it’s about 1/3 of the total pie. QB is 1/3. Skill players are 1/3. OL is 1/3.

On defense I would say it’s about 40%.



I’m not nearly as sold on the offense or defense as you, bobble. Meyer and Runyan have a lot to prove. I don’t think Jenkins or Turner are very good at LT.

Defense we have Clark, then borderline rotational guys inside. Z, P and Gary are a top notch threesome. It’s good but not great.


We have a chance at a SB but not an elite trench team IMHO.

I'd have to ask, RG, are you considering your big outside pass rushers to be "D Line"? Then, maybe yeah to what you say. But in a 3-4 or whatever where Z, Preston, and RG (the other one) are called OLBs, it's pretty hard to claim the D Line is the biggest deal on D.

[texaspackerbacker]

I think the OL is elite considering the depth. You say Jenkins isn't very good at LT? I can only go on the limited amount of time he has spent there. Given full camp I think he is going to be really good. So good its going to cause a problem when its time to extend him. If Meyers isn't as good as McCarren thinks then Patrick will likely be the center. Braden and Runyan are rotating because they are both good not because they are desperately hoping one pans out.

The DL I didn't mean to oversell, but compared to years past I like the depth guys more than I have. And I still believe they may add a body if they think there is still value to be had by doing so. There are still 3-5 guys out there who can play. Plus we have very large OLB. We run nearly a hybrid 3.5-3.5 with their size.

It would take something horrendous - like life without Aaron Rodgers - to really say one way or another about how good or bad our O Line is. My strong opinion is that Rodgers has been carrying the line and making them seem to a lot of people way better than what they are for quite a few years. With Jenkins and hopefully Meyers approaching elite status, who knows, maybe they could carry a Rodgers-less team to greatness, but I sort of doubt it.

[RashanGary]

I'd have to ask, RG, are you considering your big outside pass rushers to be "D Line"? Then, maybe yeah to what you say. But in a 3-4 or whatever where Z, Preston, and RG (the other one) are called OLBs, it's pretty hard to claim the D Line is the biggest deal on D.

I do consider 3-4 OLBs as part of trench play. They set edges in the trenches abd rush the passer in the trenches. I consider them more like a DL than a LB