Lets talk Trenches

[Upnorth]

It would take something horrendous - like life without Aaron Rodgers - to really say one way or another about how good or bad our O Line is. My strong opinion is that Rodgers has been carrying the line and making them seem to a lot of people way better than what they are for quite a few years. With Jenkins and hopefully Meyers approaching elite status, who knows, maybe they could carry a Rodgers-less team to greatness, but I sort of doubt it.

Our line had one bad game last year. The nfccg. We had one injury, to bakh. 12 was not injured yet his pressure rate was almost double what it was in the next worse game last year, against tampa in the reg season. Similar scheme, same qb, only major difference was what I call an all pro likely hof tackle and what you call a good but not great tackle was gone. Arguably Turner was still coming back from injury a few weeks prior in the first game but I dont think it hobbled him either game.

So our oline is just average in your opinion but I don't think that fits what I saw.

Further others saw it as well.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021/2/12/22273494/packers-2020-roster-grades-offensive-line-led-the-nfl-in-run-and-pass-blocking-win-rates

[Fritz]

The two keys will be Myers's ability to step in right away and play at a high level, and of course injuries. But the offensive line and running back appear to be the deepest positions on the team.

[bobblehead]

Good time to revisit this. Yosh, now or never I said...leaned towards never because of the depth...then injuries happened and hello mr. Nijman!! I would say the depth and quality we have seen backs up my premise that this is an overall elite group and unit.

[Fritz]

Good time to revisit this. Yosh, now or never I said...leaned towards never because of the depth...then injuries happened and hello mr. Nijman!! I would say the depth and quality we have seen backs up my premise that this is an overall elite group and unit.

From what you've all seen, is Nijman now a "capable backup" and has reached his limit, or has he shown enough that he might be a starter in this league?

[King Friday]

Kansas City has all the elite talent on offense in the world... And they keep getting curb stomped. This is because their OL is inferior...and strongly refutes Tex's mantra.

[George Cumby]

^ This.

This OL is so impressive given what's being thrown out there.

Rodgers had beautiful clean pockets and at moments had all day back there. Pack had 130 on the ground.

Sure, the Bengals gave the O a hard time, but I got some news for you: the other team gets paid to play and they are most definitely a talented team and appear to be well-coached.

The DL, amazingly, shows promise. Take away Burrow's 11 yards and the Bengals got less than 100 on the ground.

No less astounding, I think the LB play is elevating as well. Gary and P.Smith were super active yesterday. IDK who #53 is but he forced that one sack by collapsing the right side of the pocket.

[Harlan Huckleby]

THe fat boys did well, was saying that to myself throughout game.

I hesitate to say too much as I thought that the Bak injury and vet losses would catch up to Packers this year and I don't much like being wrong.

[run pMc]

^ This.

This OL is so impressive given what's being thrown out there.

Rodgers had beautiful clean pockets and at moments had all day back there. Pack had 130 on the ground.

Sure, the Bengals gave the O a hard time, but I got some news for you: the other team gets paid to play and they are most definitely a talented team and appear to be well-coached.

The DL, amazingly, shows promise. Take away Burrow's 11 yards and the Bengals got less than 100 on the ground.

No less astounding, I think the LB play is elevating as well. Gary and P.Smith were super active yesterday. IDK who #53 is but he forced that one sack by collapsing the right side of the pocket.

#53 is Garvin. He's pretty much all bull rush and depth. Not sure he'll develop past that, but who knows. He's ok.
Agree on the KC OL -- Buffalo has a very good defense and made Mahomes uncomfortable last night. Their OL injuries cost them the SB last year. Going into a game with a backup LT is like going into a game without your best CB; it's a potential weakness the other side will try to exploit.

Rodgers is good and getting the ball out fast will help cover for a injury ravaged OL. He took 2 sacks and 5 hits vs. CIN; it could have been much much worse with 3 backups playing. OL play definitely matters though. Ask Joe Burrow's ACL (or David Carr's career) about OL play.

As for defense, they are playing ok. Seems like they make 2nd half adjustments that work, I think they give up less points after the half.
I like that they go with 3 DL more than Pettine did -- seems to help vs. the run. They don't quite have the players they need there -- I feel like Clark needs a running mate to really do some damage. Preston has had a good year and Gary has his moments. He's around the ball and contributing. Lowry will disappear against a good OL; Lancaster is deep depth IMO and Slaton should get snaps to develop. Keke is a rotational guy; they need another stud on that line to really make it work, especially with Z out. If you just get 3 really big fat guys you will get the gaps filled vs the run but I doubt you'll get any pass rush up the middle; 320+ pounders who can pass rush are extremely rare. The current NFL says you need pass rush up the middle to make the QB uncomfortable and help the OLBs get there.

[HarveyWallbangers]

From what you've all seen, is Nijman now a "capable backup" and has reached his limit, or has he shown enough that he might be a starter in this league?

He has tremendous athletic skills, so I don't think we've seen his ceiling. If he keeps working to get stronger and keeps improving the mental side, there's no physical reason he can't be a decent starter.

[texaspackerbacker]

My "mantra" is that the Packers with Aaron Rodgers and Aaron Jones don't need anything special in the O Line. But if you want to talk about K.C., they've mostly been getting outscored - their D beaten by other team' offense. Buffalo, of course, is good enough to beat almost anybody most of the time. Also, Mahomes for whatever reason has kinda come down to earth this season. Yesterday's game really highlighted the lack of importance of good O Line play - we really didn't get good O Line play at all, but we still had great success by Rodgers and moderate success by Jones.

The other half of the trenches, the D Line, was fairly poor yesterday for the Packers too - everybody other than Clark, and he got double teamed a lot. But no matter - we won the game anyway on a generally bad day against a fired up 3-1 team at their place.

The whole premise of winning games in the trenches is overrated, outdated, and/or downright false. It's all about skill players.

[bobblehead]

From what you've all seen, is Nijman now a "capable backup" and has reached his limit, or has he shown enough that he might be a starter in this league?

He isn't maxed out by any means. Given his physical gifts and now that we know he worked to improve he actually has a VERY high ceiling. My biggest concern was always that he was "content". But look at the man. I can't recall an OT with that kind of size and movement skills. He still needs work, but he is eons ahead of where he was 2 years ago and he is bigger, faster and stronger than Bak. Maybe Bak can teach him how to legally hold next!!

[run pMc]

The whole premise of winning games in the trenches is overrated, outdated, and/or downright false. It's all about skill players.

Disagree, especially in the playoffs when the opposing D has studs like Donald, Bosa, Suh/JPP, etc. or when the opposing OL has Pro Bowl caliber players stopping the pass rush and opening running lanes.

In terms of skill players the one that matters most is the QB... if you have a good scheme and game plan you can get by with meh skill players at the other positions -- MLF has proven that when Adams or Jones have missed games.
If the OL opens running lanes and keeps the QB upright to make throws the MLF offense should work.

[smuggler]

The whole premise of winning games in the trenches is overrated, outdated, and/or downright false. It's all about skill players.

You really couldn't be more wrong. Tampa showed us that in the NFCC and SB last year. They also have great receivers and a good, reliable passer, but principally they won those games in the trenches.

[bobblehead]

My "mantra" is that the Packers with Aaron Rodgers and Aaron Jones don't need anything special in the O Line. But if you want to talk about K.C., they've mostly been getting outscored - their D beaten by other team' offense. Buffalo, of course, is good enough to beat almost anybody most of the time. Also, Mahomes for whatever reason has kinda come down to earth this season. Yesterday's game really highlighted the lack of importance of good O Line play - we really didn't get good O Line play at all, but we still had great success by Rodgers and moderate success by Jones.

The other half of the trenches, the D Line, was fairly poor yesterday for the Packers too - everybody other than Clark, and he got double teamed a lot. But no matter - we won the game anyway on a generally bad day against a fired up 3-1 team at their place.

The whole premise of winning games in the trenches is overrated, outdated, and/or downright false. It's all about skill players.

Is that how the patriots won all those rings? With super skilled WR and RBs? I never knew. I thought they did it with a consistently good OL and top ranked defense.

[Upnorth]

My "mantra" is that the Packers with Aaron Rodgers and Aaron Jones don't need anything special in the O Line. But if you want to talk about K.C., they've mostly been getting outscored - their D beaten by other team' offense. Buffalo, of course, is good enough to beat almost anybody most of the time. Also, Mahomes for whatever reason has kinda come down to earth this season. Yesterday's game really highlighted the lack of importance of good O Line play - we really didn't get good O Line play at all, but we still had great success by Rodgers and moderate success by Jones.

The other half of the trenches, the D Line, was fairly poor yesterday for the Packers too - everybody other than Clark, and he got double teamed a lot. But no matter - we won the game anyway on a generally bad day against a fired up 3-1 team at their place.

The whole premise of winning games in the trenches is overrated, outdated, and/or downright false. It's all about skill players.

Dude, when our line played poorly our o went no where. Re watch the game and look at the line. Rodgers avoid pressure a couple times all game, but mostly when not under center it was a designed roll out. Oline don't accidentally block 5 yards right or left of center. It's called a game plan.