Gruden Out As Raiders Coach

[smuggler]

The problem wasn't the language. It was the hatred directed towards a group of people. If he had said "teams shoudn't be drafting African Americans" that would be same deal.

Except he actually treats gays and minorities and women well. The only direct hate was toward the Kansas City commish himself and Gruden just chose words that he thought Goodell would hate. Of course now that Goodell has read them, it turns out Gruden was right.

But Antonio Brown directly harbors anger toward women and also assaults them. Pretty drastic difference.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Except he actually treats gays and minorities and women well. The only direct hate was toward the Kansas City commish himself and Gruden just chose words that he thought Goodell would hate.

Man, that's some fancy defense lawyering. He hates on Goodell for pressuring a GM to "draft queers." (BTW, Did Goodell actually do this?) But you say this is only a knock on Goodell.

Anyway, lots of people find the guy offensive, in a dozen different ways. And that's just from limited stuff that's been released.

A lot of ppl have been smeared by old tweets and emails. I agree the purge is too much and unfortunate. In general, as long as people aren't causing problems currently, nothing accomplished by digging up the past.

[smuggler]

Gruden's criticism of Goodell is insensitive but not overly hateful. Gruden is certainly wrong for his choice of words, but it doesn't make him evil or even prejudiced. People really do live to overuse the word hate, but Nassib said he respects Gruden. I trust him before anyone else in the world concerning how Gruden treats gays.

If Goodell actually did pressure Fischer into drafting Michael Sam, which I am dubious about, then Gruden's criticism is actually valid except in its execution.

Goodell is wrong for blackmailing Gruden. He may or may not be wrong about being so massively offended by being called a homosexual.

[Joemailman]

Gruden's criticism of Goodell is insensitive but not overly hateful. Gruden is certainly wrong for his choice of words, but it doesn't make him evil or even prejudiced. People really do live to overuse the word hate, but Nassib said he respects Gruden. I trust him before anyone else in the world concerning how Gruden treats gays.

If Goodell actually did pressure Fischer into drafting Michael Sam, which I am dubious about, then Gruden's criticism is actually valid except in its execution.

Goodell is wrong for blackmailing Gruden. He may or may not be wrong about being so massively offended by being called a homosexual.

Except Gruden didn't call Goodell a homosexual. He called him a faggot, which is a derogatory term toward anyone who is homosexual. That is the problem. Gruden justifiably likely never would have been hired by the Raiders if his comments had been known at the time. So there is some justice in Gruden losing his job, since he never deserved the job in the first place, even if the way it came about is troubling to many.

For the record, Jeff Fisher has said on one from the NFL ever encouraged him to or discouraged him from drafting Michael Sam.

[smuggler]

Oh of course. I'm not arguing Gruden is allowed to say what he said. I'm saying the league is WORSE.

[George Cumby]

^ Agreed. I think you're restating what Guinness addressed early on in the thread.

The League is about generating $ for the owners and protecting the owners. Chucky is, when it gets down to brass tacks, small fry compared to the likes of Jerrah, Snyder, Khaaaaaaaaaaan! and the rest of the billionaires boy's club.

The League needs players, even those that behave deplorably.

Gruden's a nice sacrifice to their Golden Calf.

[bobblehead]

Man, that's some fancy defense lawyering. He hates on Goodell for pressuring a GM to "draft queers." (BTW, Did Goodell actually do this?) But you say this is only a knock on Goodell.

Anyway, lots of people find the guy offensive, in a dozen different ways. And that's just from limited stuff that's been released.

A lot of ppl have been smeared by old tweets and emails. I agree the purge is too much and unfortunate. In general, as long as people aren't causing problems currently, nothing accomplished by digging up the past.

Personally I absolutely think that goodell pressured the Rams to draft Sams. The team at the time had the deepest most talented DL in the league. Sams was going to go undrafted. I think Goodell promised them a better comp pick to draft him because it would be undeniable he wasn't good enough to make that team. Shrewd move by Mr. Commish to show the world Sams wasn't being biased against while virtually assuring he wouldn't make a roster.

[bobblehead]

Oh...and i think Sams is very shrewd too. He knew he wasn't good enough, but by coming out as gay when he did, he assured Goodell would pressure some team to draft him. If no one drafted him I think he would have filed a lawsuit. Notice when Nassib came out the world yawned. Guy can play so no one cares who he loves. Sams wasn't any good, and the world also didn't care who he loved, but if he went undrafted it would open a lawsuit up.

[smuggler]

I think Sam doing what he did when he did it gave him something to hang his hat on. I don't know if he would have leveraged a lawsuit. Certainly not one that actually went to court.

[scharpcheddar]

Another staged propaganda event

[Fritz]

Personally I absolutely think that goodell pressured the Rams to draft Sams. The team at the time had the deepest most talented DL in the league. Sams was going to go undrafted. I think Goodell promised them a better comp pick to draft him because it would be undeniable he wasn't good enough to make that team. Shrewd move by Mr. Commish to show the world Sams wasn't being biased against while virtually assuring he wouldn't make a roster.

If this is the case, and I don't think it is, then lots of guys who look to be undrafted ought to suddenly post that they are part of the LGBTQ+ community, maybe post some RuPaul-ish pics or something, or announce they're undergoing a sex change.

Maybe I should be an agent. Another way for a borderline player to burnish their resume!

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Personally I absolutely think that goodell pressured the Rams to draft Sams. The team at the time had the deepest most talented DL in the league. Sams was going to go undrafted. I think Goodell promised them a better comp pick to draft him because it would be undeniable he wasn't good enough to make that team. Shrewd move by Mr. Commish to show the world Sams wasn't being biased against while virtually assuring he wouldn't make a roster.

Michael Sam had a good rookie preseason, especially against our beloved Pack (2 sacks vs Pack, if I recall correctly). You could argue that his production came against scrubs. Well, so was Jayrone Elliot’s. Elliot made the Pack’s 53 for three STRAIGHT (pun unintended) seasons despite not doing shit in the regular season.

In a league where scouts and GMs usually have hard-ons for pass rushers (remember Wolf’s hard-on for Jamal Reynolds, or Thompson’s for Justin Harrell?), young uns with pass rushing potentials usually have a spot on an NFL rooster. No doubt, Michael Sam was blackballed from the NFL b/c he digs men.

[Joemailman]

Michael Sam had a good rookie preseason, especially against our beloved Pack (2 sacks vs Pack, if I recall correctly). You could argue that his production came against scrubs. Well, so was Jayrone Elliot’s. Elliot made the Pack’s 53 for three STRAIGHT (pun unintended) seasons despite not doing shit in the regular season.

In a league where scouts and GMs usually have hard-ons for pass rushers (remember Wolf’s hard-on for Jamal Reynolds, or Thompson’s for Justin Harrell?), young uns with pass rushing potentials usually have a spot on an NFL rooster. No doubt, Michael Sam was blackballed from the NFL b/c he digs men.

I agree. I remember being surprised when he was cut. 4th round picks who look good in preseason don't usually get cut. Teams will at least keep a guy like that for a while to see if he has some upside.

[smuggler]

He wasn't a pass rush specialist with physical talent trying to harness it by improving technique and skill. He was an average college athlete with well developed PR techniques and no special teams value. In short, he was a low-ceiling prospect with arguably a low floor as well. It could be argued that the same socio-political circus that got him (over)drafted also made him even less appealing as a FA once he failed to make the Rams.

Anybody that believed at the time that he was blackballed was eating up the news media narrative and not embracing the facts of the matter.

Anybody holding that line now is either deliberately revising history for the sake of that narrative or they're just wrong because they fell for it themselves the first time around.

Sorry boys, but you look dumb as fuck on this one. It happens sometimes.

[Sparkey]

He was SEC player of year with 10 sacks in 2013. He also was a 7tg round pick so it's not like they wasted a pick on what otherwise would have been a sure thing.