Christl blog : contentious

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think I can simplify this: If a guy was drunk and fled the police (IF), then I think he ought to be punished and have to keep his nose clean for a while before he's allowed special priviledges, such as playing for the Green Bay Packers. Do you think otherwise?

It is not the Green Bay Packers job to reform the guy by "withholding special priveleges." The Packers are not parents.

It's the Packers job to look out for their own interests, which would be to sign the best players possible, and avoid players who will be disruptive. Have to balance the risk/reward.

Now, on this basis, you mght judge Robinson to be a bad risk, wouldn't make the deal. That's fine. Thompson weighed it differently. It is certainly not a clear decision. Robinson has a mixed record, he has stayed sober for long stretches. I agree with Thompson that the risk is worth taking.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I agree with Thompson that the risk is worth taking.

I also agree that the risk is worth taking. His problem is something that can be corrected and is not something that can completely destroy the team. This guy is not a head case, like say, TO. TO is a guy who wants attention and will act up to get it. I have never heard of Koren ruining team chemistry with the vikes. He has a drinking problem and needs help to turn his life around. The best place to do that might be in a small city like Green Bay.

[Scott Campbell]

My quibble is with characterizing playing with the Packers as a privilege.

I believe it is a privilege. It's certainly not his right.

[mraynrand]

I think I can simplify this: If a guy was drunk and fled the police (IF), then I think he ought to be punished and have to keep his nose clean for a while before he's allowed special priviledges, such as playing for the Green Bay Packers. Do you think otherwise?

It is not the Green Bay Packers job to reform the guy by "withholding special priveleges." The Packers are not parents.

It's the Packers job to look out for their own interests, which would be to sign the best players possible, and avoid players who will be disruptive. Have to balance the risk/reward.

Now, on this basis, you mght judge Robinson to be a bad risk, wouldn't make the deal. That's fine. Thompson weighed it differently. It is certainly not a clear decision. Robinson has a mixed record, he has stayed sober for long stretches. I agree with Thompson that the risk is worth taking.

I think you're on the right track here. You and Thompson agree that the risk is worth taking. That's your estimation. Thompson has to make that call, and it's his right to make it. I don't dispute that. What I dispute comes from my own estimation of ethics and my experience hiring people. I think you were wrong to characterize the Packers as 'reformers' by withholding priviledges. I look at it differently. I don't expect the Packers to 'reform' Robinson by not hiring him - I see them as not hiring him because they are worried that he is not reformed.

I would see an unreformed Robinson as too big a risk (my estimation). If I have a person applying to me for a job (and to make a fair comparison, I'll say I need the person, because they can do something a lot better than any other applicant) and this person has unresolved (by this I mean there is no consistent pattern of reform) substance abuse issues, and outstanding criminal charges, I would not hire that person, because the risk outweighs the advantage, although it might hurt my business to not have that person's skills. I would be far more likely to want to hire such a person if they had remained sober for a year, held down a lower level job, and had resolved their legal issues.

But the aspect where I will grant you there is some difficulty is that at some point, some employer has to take a risk on a substance abuser/criminal, to allow them to redeem themselves. I think the willingness to do this gets harder as the critical nature or visibility of the job increases (the damage to others or to your business' reputation if you hire someone who relapse as a dishwasher is far less serious than if your employee relapses as a pilot, to give two extreme examples).

So in summary, I think you, Harlan, and Thompson may just have your tolerance bar set a little lower than me (or your estimated reward is much higher than your estimated risk). I sincerely hope you're right with respect to Robinson - I really do hope the guy stays clean, if only for his well-being and the safety of the community, pass receptions notwithstanding.

And now let's see if he can return kicks.

[Tarlam!]

...If the judge has any brains he'll take care of this shortly. Teach him what happens when you make the sort of choices he apparently routinely makes...

You have no idea, do you? Ras, I have no respect for your opinions on this issue.

How is throwing the guy in jail and robbing him of an income going to "teach" him anything? You make it sound like he has a conscious choice. You clearly have no idea of the disease. None whatsoever.

People who have beaten this live in constant fear they will fall down again. Unlike ex-smokers, dry alcoholics are not militant towards people suffering from their disease.

Please educate yourself a little rather than spewing your ignorant moral load and wagging your cyber-finger.

[woodbuck27]

" I really do hope the guy stays clean, if only for his well-being and the safety of the community, pass receptions notwithstanding." mrayrand

I think that it's safe to say that the large majority of Packer fans are certainly there ..but...

The reality of Koren Robinson's struggle trumps any hoping/trusting/faith. As the REALITY of his illness predominates in the argument of him playing for "the Packers" Vs him getting the proper care he does obviously need.

Only Koren Robinson can decide on the proper treatment. We know that an alcoholic can't be forced into a facility, or one that offers proper care and treatment with excellent Programs, to better ensure long term success. Today..tomorrow ,Koren Robinson remains in the firm grip of the illness of Alcoholism.

Ted Thompson certainly shouldn't have enabled KR's illness by offering him any Free Pass in Green Bay. If Koren Robinson screws up in Green Bay? We can't blame him (KR) for that screw up. It ( the blame) must fall on Ted Thompson.

Yet it doesn't even have to go to any screw up.

Ted Thompson is playing with FIRE in this issue. In all liklihood, Koren Robinson will feel stress playing football with OUR team and use alcohol. Just that decision is wrong for Koren Robinson. He's allergic to alcohol and . .he needs to not ever use it.

In all liklihood he will. Then he may act destructively and that may have consequences that will come back to haunt Ted thompson.

Ted Thompson has enabled that -ve possibility and consequently has not made the RIGHT choice in whether or not to use KR as a football player for the Packers.

TED THOMPSON no matter what happens with KR and alcohol, has certainly made a mistake here.

Ted Thompson screwed up !!

[woodbuck27]

Tarlam!

I agree in principle with Rastak, as this situation specific to Koren Robinson presents itself.

KR has again screwed up in his illness, after his choice to abuse himself and risk all to that choice to drink alcohol.

Koren Robinson in his use of alcohol. Violated his privalege to drive and he "in fact" broke the Traffic Laws in the State Of Minnesota and has been arrested after whatever. . and will be suffered a Trial and possible consequences (if found guilty) that may well include incarceration. Koren Robinson in all liklihood will be punished wit time in Jail/ prison as the law administer's itself in the State of Minnesotta.

Koren Robinson had a choice to drink or not to drink alcohol.

His blood alcohol tells us that although he wasn't over the allowable limit by alot . he was over at 0.11 and the limit set at 0.08? He's going to face a DUI and be found guilty unless he gets some fantastic Defense from an experienced lawyer with proper skillsto defend Koren Robinson.

Now that arrest is his. He must own it and get the BEST lawyer he will need and face the medicine in Court.

Rastak takes " just the reality of it to us here " The FACTS of the matter.

Violaton of LAW = Trial (may = Guilty and if so ) = Penalty in the form of some punishment that may include time in confinement.

Action = Possible Consequence.

Yup no job and no money from no job.The simple facts of life Tarlam! Koren Robinson didn't think about that when he risked it all in his inability that night to make the proper decision. He screwed up and he got caught and he's going to pay a price,maybe.

He deserves to pay that price only if found guility.he's innocent today.DAM he's free to play football in Green Bay with ted thompsons bonehead selfish greed and irresponsiblehire of Koren Robinson.Do you coddle and protect a psycho tarlam! ??A man/woman that may do certain harm to another as you harbour him/her/

As lonf as Koren Robinson is FREE and obviosly not competent in his decision making would YOU enable him?

We shouldn't even be discussing this issue here (specific to KR's guilt or not as he's not been tried)

YOU have decided to "in fact" be the sanctimonious one here and take a smack down on Rastak who is clearly correct in his annoyance over Koren Robinson.

Please re-address your stance " in reality of THE TRUTH " regarding JUST this matter concerning Koren Robinson.

Try not to confuse that, with any general feeling (personal feeling) about the illness of Alcoholism that appears to me to be generating some anger at Rastak that is unwarranted.

Rastak is correct in his stance even if he's harsh before the crime has ben proven.

Good Luck My Friend and Fellow packer fan.

[woodbuck27]

I think I can simplify this: If a guy was drunk and fled the police (IF), then I think he ought to be punished and have to keep his nose clean for a while before he's allowed special priviledges, such as playing for the Green Bay Packers. Do you think otherwise?

Absolutely

[Rastak]

...If the judge has any brains he'll take care of this shortly. Teach him what happens when you make the sort of choices he apparently routinely makes...

You have no idea, do you? Ras, I have no respect for your opinions on this issue.

How is throwing the guy in jail and robbing him of an income going to "teach" him anything? You make it sound like he has a conscious choice. You clearly have no idea of the disease. None whatsoever.

People who have beaten this live in constant fear they will fall down again. Unlike ex-smokers, dry alcoholics are not militant towards people suffering from their disease.

Please educate yourself a little rather than spewing your ignorant moral load and wagging your cyber-finger.

Okay Tarlem, I ain't letting this go dude. Are friggen telling me it's wrong to put criminals in jail.....and don't give me this illness bullshit either, the asshole has TWICE been clocked at over 100 drunk.


So tell me Tarlem, what are jails for if not for criminals? I ain't buying your line of thinking at all, period.

This dude needs to help himself and to do so he needs a wakeup call and if the judge has any brains whatsoever he'll get one. He earned it Tarlem.