Peter Bukowski vs John Kuhn Twitter Fight

[Jaire]

Be funny if the camera showed a close up of a Packer wide receiver after Rodgers way overthrows or underthrows him on a deep route, and the receiver did the classic Aaron Rodgers eye roll. I'd pay to see that.

hahaha

But the truth is AR can do whatever he wants. He has the upmost respect from his receivers. In fact, he has the most respect of any player around the league. Only critique I ever heard was from Finley and Jennings, and that needs a lotta lotta grains of salt. I've never heard Montana or Favre ever tip their hats to any other QB; others as well.

We are spoiled

Eidt: tip their hats, meaning they acknowledged AR was the better QB

[Bretsky]

hahaha

But the truth is AR can do whatever he wants. He has the upmost respect from his receivers. In fact, he has the most respect of any player around the league. Only critique I ever heard was from Finley and Jennings, and that needs a lotta lotta grains of salt. I've never heard Montana or Favre ever tip their hats to any other QB; others as well.

We are spoiled

Eidt: tip their hats, meaning they acknowledged AR was the better QB

Truth be told, AROD can do whatever he wants as he took Gute by the balls and twisted him into submissio in the offseason, and I don't think MLF has much control over him either. I've listened to other teammates comment on Rodgers. They never rip him like Jennings and Finley, but I definitely don't hear anybody going to bat for his character or strategy with his comments either To me, I don't feel like he's a good teammate. He manipulates the jokester every Tuesday and says whatever he wants with passive aggressive criticism, and then he knowingly says he has an open door for anybody to chat when he knows nobody is going to confront what he says. Have you listened to Tauscher and TL Lang's critique of a lot of his comments ?

He's a great player but I think you give him too much credit.

[bobblehead]

Said no one (except Jennings & Finley) who played with him. This is just not true.

Besides, the team played quite a bit better today...... though also you could really see where their deficiencies are (which I put mainly on Gute and coaching).

And Jennings sister. That chic HATED ARod. I wonder if he did her dirty somewhere along the line.

[bobblehead]

hahaha

But the truth is AR can do whatever he wants. He has the upmost respect from his receivers. In fact, he has the most respect of any player around the league. Only critique I ever heard was from Finley and Jennings, and that needs a lotta lotta grains of salt. I've never heard Montana or Favre ever tip their hats to any other QB; others as well.

We are spoiled

Eidt: tip their hats, meaning they acknowledged AR was the better QB

I always thought Montana was the best ARod comp. Accurate, mobile, smart. But Joe was so cool under pressure. I haven't quite seen that level of calmness from anyone else ever.

[Jaire]

I always thought Montana was the best ARod comp. Accurate, mobile, smart. But Joe was so cool under pressure. I haven't quite seen that level of calmness from anyone else ever.

Honestly, I didn't see enough of Montana. I started watching football at his tail end, so never got a good feel for him. He also had pretty amazing teams surround him. I've never seen a QB the last 30 years not get flustered at some point.

I doubt I saw Montana play more than four times. Just like this last week I had my first real look at Josh Allen.

[Jaire]

Truth be told, AROD can do whatever he wants as he took Gute by the balls and twisted him into submissio in the offseason, and I don't think MLF has much control over him either. I've listened to other teammates comment on Rodgers. They never rip him like Jennings and Finley, but I definitely don't hear anybody going to bat for his character or strategy with his comments either To me, I don't feel like he's a good teammate. He manipulates the jokester every Tuesday and says whatever he wants with passive aggressive criticism, and then he knowingly says he has an open door for anybody to chat when he knows nobody is going to confront what he says. Have you listened to Tauscher and TL Lang's critique of a lot of his comments ?

He's a great player but I think you give him too much credit.

No. I haven't heard the critiques except once and they seem a bit mild. I've definitely heard former team mates give him the highest praise I've ever heard players give their QB.

Thing is, he's been around so many years: anyone of his caliber can say what they want and no one (on the team) will get pissed: and he tries to be measured and helpful. But, honestly, I don't think AR has said anything out of line. He's just more forthcoming than most NFL players, and does want the team to succeed -- he is the ultimate competitor, just a bit different. His own players back him, and he is the first to practice what he preaches. A lot of vets don't do OTA's, and I think that's overblown. He has the most insightful comments over the years as to where he thinks the team / players are. He does sometimes overpraise some guys, but not rookies really. McAfee show can be obnoxious and ridiculous fawning over AR, but I listen for where AR does give insight. I totally disagree that his comments are passive-aggressive. AR is passive aggressive, but I think that's toned down the last three years: I don't see it recently.

[Jaire]

And I think Montana may be a tad mythologized. LIS I really only saw him in KC, and he had some bad play. I really started watching in 91. That sure was a different game back then. It's a lot easier to be "cool" when your RBs are getting 3000 yards a year and your defense is lights out. Of course he had a pretty stud WR/TE/RB combo late in his career. Not to mention the best coach of the era. I do remember this (and it might have been Phil SImms talking about it), I think Walsh had a lot to do with Montana'a success. He would have made a number of QBs look like GOATs. Not taking anything from Montana. He was definitely a great QB. BUT SO much depends on who's around you and who's your coach.

Game then was different. That 5 and 7 step drop back was different; hitting was different. I just rewatched highlights on the 96 SB. That GB team was pretty stacked too.

I see the similarity to AR though. It's pretty rare to see two great QBs similar like that. It was a bit slower, harder hitting game back then.

(Montana had some very ugly playoff outs with really good teams.)

[run pMc]

I watched plenty of Montana. He was as good as advertised.

[texaspackerbacker]

Montana was < Steve Young.

[Jaire]

I watched plenty of Montana. He was as good as advertised.

I'm not saying he wasn't great. But he had a top five defense most the years he played. Only three times in his starting career was it not top 10. And great to amazing talent around him. AR never had many of the forgettable exits that Montana had. AR has carried a lot of water over the years. There's not a lot of separation between Montana and AR: not saying Montana wasn't Joe Cool, just it's my opinion that AR is colder than ice. Put AR on any Montana or Brady teams, I think he comes away with more bling. That said Brady is very different than Montana/Rodgers in his play. So, hard for me to comp T.B.

[NewsBruin]

Jaire, what do you mean when you write "AR has carried a lot of water over the years."? Like he's borne the results for a front office that had Dementia or prioritized defensive standouts over offensive talent?

(Kind of the inverse of Manning's Indianapolis Colts, who put tons of resources into the offense and hoped the defense could make do)?

[run pMc]

I'm not saying he wasn't great. But he had a top five defense most the years he played. Only three times in his starting career was it not top 10. And great to amazing talent around him. AR never had many of the forgettable exits that Montana had. AR has carried a lot of water over the years. There's not a lot of separation between Montana and AR: not saying Montana wasn't Joe Cool, just it's my opinion that AR is colder than ice. Put AR on any Montana or Brady teams, I think he comes away with more bling. That said Brady is very different than Montana/Rodgers in his play. So, hard for me to comp T.B.

So you're saying if Rodgers was being coached by Walsh or Belichick he'd have won more than one SB? I agree with that.
Rodgers won his SB with a top 5 defense occasionally bailing him out. He also had an accurate rocket arm, great scrambling ability, and a ton of weapons on offense. That was 12 years ago. He's had some bad playoff losses since then (most recently, last year's loss to SF).

Brady gets by with having the quickest mental processing in the game, he pulls the trigger so fast you can't hit him. He also had a mismatch stud with Gronk for a lot of those years.
Before Brady, Montana was the GOAT IMO, but I never saw Otto Graham play. Montana was so good at carving you up in Walsh's offense.

Steve Young was pretty good too, the game was changing then. I'd take Steve Young over Elway anyday.

Rodgers is still a good player, but he's not above criticism from me, you, Kuhn or Bukowski. A thread about where Rodgers belongs in the pantheon of QBs is likely best saved until he retires. He might have one more SB run in him (you never know).

[Jaire]

Yeah. I can't agree. AR led the 2010 team. That defense played very well, but Eric Walden/Frank Zombo? top five? Close. It was his best defense in 15 years: I'll definitely give you that. And only one of two to compare with Montana's "norm". Not close. Craig, Owens, Stokes, Rice, Dwight Clark, etc. etc. It's not really a discussion. It's easy to carve up other teams with that talent in that system. AR has done it with lots less. So, I just can't be impressed. This taints Brady's career as well, just as Marino was decades ago the-what-could-have-been.

The 1987 Niners loss and several before that: all top five defenses. How many top 1? Montana gets no criticism and had an all time all star cast and team. Lot of QBs thrive there. I honestly don't remember a bad performance by AR in the playoffs: it was good or great, given the circumstances. The Goat of all time got crushed two years in a row by the Giants. I missed him. This is just my opinion, but I have AR a head above Montana and Steve Young (who I did get to see). Elway was always overrated: and I saw plenty of him.

And that's gotta be a typo. AR "bailed out" by the defense. Which road game did he fail in that playoffs. He was 9tds 2ints. The AR hate has reached absurd levels: it's clear there is one standard for AR and a completely nother one for every other QB. Joe Cool suffered one of the worst defeats in playoff history, but it was not his fault? He had as many int's that game as AR in the four postseason games in 2010. He was too good to be bailed out? Was it his number one defense that failed him? Jerry Rice? Roger Craig? Who prevented Montana with one of the best start casts in the history of the game to fail? Not to mention Young outshining him when he went down.

I just take it as some golden boy idol worship of years long ago, without perspective and a bit of green eyed myopic shortsightedness.

edit: No. I said AR would have had MORE bling than Joe or Brady.

[Bretsky]

Aaron Rodgers play in some of these playoff games failed us. He played great in the Super Bowl though.

[RashanGary]

Now packer fans are calling Christian Watson soft and made of glass to his mom and dad on Twitter. Fucking idiots.