Official Training Camp Thread

[SudsMcBucky]

So far the early story of camp seems to be that Zach Tom is beating out Yosh Nijman for the right tackle job. Nijman's been subbing in for Bakhtieri on the left side.

Hmmmm. Could it be the Packers are going to hang on to Bakh for training camp, then ship him off to, say, the New York Jets, and make Nijman the left tackle??

Glad to see Tariq Carpenter is back at practice, too. He's going to be a better inside linebacker than he was a safety.

Also, I see the Packers are giving Van Mess the Iowa treatment - first Hollins starts ahead of him, then the next day it's Engabare starting ahead of him.

Due to cap implications, they ain't getting rid of Bahk this year.

[run pMc]

Due to cap implications, they ain't getting rid of Bahk this year.

I don't think it's a consideration until they approach the trade deadline or in the offseason. If they trade him next year the new team pays Bahk a bargain & GB gets some cap relief.
Personally I'd keep him at least for this year. Having a solid OL and running game will make a new QB's job easier.

The OL also gets hit by injuries every year, so I wouldn't trade Njiman either.
If he gets a fat contract offer from someone else next year GB gets a nice comp pick. Main thing is to keep developing Tom and find the next long term OT to bookend with him.
Bakhtiari played a lot better in the latter half of last season, but his medicals make me wonder how much longer he can play.

[Harlan Huckleby]

also depends on what you mean by advancing in the playoffs. You mean to the SB or just the CC? Case Keenum has been a playoff winning QB. Brock Purdy. Kerry Collins, Rich Gannon, and Brad Johnson have made it to the Super Bowl. Donovan McNabb was good for a time I guess. Matt Stafford too. You can get there (or advance to a point) but you have to have something else that is elite - like a top 3 defense or offensive playmakers, or be on an extreme hot streak, but it's rare. The way the NFL is now, you need a very good offense and that generally means you have at least a good QB.

I consider making the Championship game as elite. The Fuck Ya Four.

In my fracturing memory, the Championship game routinely features top 10 QBs, or sometimes better.

[Fritz]

Due to cap implications, they ain't getting rid of Bahk this year.

I have not been keeping up very well with that side of things, Suds. What's the cap implication if they wanted to trade him this season?

[bobblehead]

I'm hoping Yosh and Runyan show enough that they can keep Tom as the backup at all positions.

I'm hoping Sean Rhyan can break the 3rd round pick jinx. If the 2nd year OL guys (Tom, Jones, Rhyan, Walker) can progress, Packers will have excellent depth on the OL

Tom can not be kept on the bench. His is unquestionably one of the top 5 (3). For my money I try to get a 2nd for Bak and start Yosh at LT, Tom at RT. Its a downgrade, but if Yosh doesn't take that final step you have draft capital to get your LT of the future instead of desperately trying to rework Bak's deal in the offseason. You also get younger either way.

I also don't want to piss off a young guy who has earned a starting spot. Not unless you have had some real serious conversations with him and you are positive he sees the big picture.

[bobblehead]

So far the early story of camp seems to be that Zach Tom is beating out Yosh Nijman for the right tackle job. Nijman's been subbing in for Bakhtieri on the left side.

Hmmmm. Could it be the Packers are going to hang on to Bakh for training camp, then ship him off to, say, the New York Jets, and make Nijman the left tackle??

Glad to see Tariq Carpenter is back at practice, too. He's going to be a better inside linebacker than he was a safety.

Also, I see the Packers are giving Van Mess the Iowa treatment - first Hollins starts ahead of him, then the next day it's Engabare starting ahead of him.

Yea, I'm not the only one with that thought I see. There are many teams that would give a 2nd for Bak. Some might give a first (looking at you chefs).

[bobblehead]

I consider making the Championship game as elite. The Fuck Ya Four.

In my fracturing memory, the Championship game routinely features top 10 QBs, or sometimes better.

Literally every journeyman QB the 49ers have trotted out in recent history qualify then. Also its a catch 22 statement. Hurts hasn't been a "top 10 QB" until he achieved what you say is only achieved by top 10 QBs. Stafford has been borderline top 10 in his career. His predecessor with the Rams flat out sucked. Mark Sanchez made 2? Championship games. Jimmy G made the Owl. Now that I think of it, nearly every year 1 or even 2 QBS who are NOT top 10 make it the the championship game. 4 of the last 6 Owls have had one QB that wasn't top 10.

[run pMc]

Tom can not be kept on the bench. His is unquestionably one of the top 5 (3). For my money I try to get a 2nd for Bak and start Yosh at LT, Tom at RT. Its a downgrade, but if Yosh doesn't take that final step you have draft capital to get your LT of the future instead of desperately trying to rework Bak's deal in the offseason. You also get younger either way.

I also don't want to piss off a young guy who has earned a starting spot. Not unless you have had some real serious conversations with him and you are positive he sees the big picture.

I think Tom should be starting too, and at tackle not guard. Maybe he's a C, but I thought he was decent as a rookie at OT and think he's a long term player there.
As for Bak and Njiman, I wouldn't be shocked at all if Bak gets traded and Njiman signs elsewhere in the offseason, and Gute drafts an OT to compete with the players on the roster. They have 3 depth OTs competing in Caleb Jones, Rasheed Walker and Luke Tenuta. One of those 3 could emerge as the new Njiman, and they would have more cost/contract control with them than Njiman (plus Njiman leaving likely nets them a good comp pick). Next year's draft looks potentially deeper than this year's, which was top heavy and not deep at all. Fashanu, Alt, Lathan, Barton all are being talked about as R1 picks.

Bahktiari is still a good OT and they aren't easy to find. IDK if extending him is a good idea given his knee and the money he'll likely want. Njiman is a slightly above average starter at OT, they might be able to do better there. I think the team likes him as the backup swing tackle but he's going to get starter money elsewhere. I know they like the young guys at the back of the roster, if one emerges during camp I could see them making a move. Bahktiari is likely here at least until the trade deadline.

[Fritz]

I think Tom should be starting too, and at tackle not guard. Maybe he's a C, but I thought he was decent as a rookie at OT and think he's a long term player there.
As for Bak and Njiman, I wouldn't be shocked at all if Bak gets traded and Njiman signs elsewhere in the offseason, and Gute drafts an OT to compete with the players on the roster. They have 3 depth OTs competing in Caleb Jones, Rasheed Walker and Luke Tenuta. One of those 3 could emerge as the new Njiman, and they would have more cost/contract control with them than Njiman (plus Njiman leaving likely nets them a good comp pick). Next year's draft looks potentially deeper than this year's, which was top heavy and not deep at all. Fashanu, Alt, Lathan, Barton all are being talked about as R1 picks.

Bahktiari is still a good OT and they aren't easy to find. IDK if extending him is a good idea given his knee and the money he'll likely want. Njiman is a slightly above average starter at OT, they might be able to do better there. I think the team likes him as the backup swing tackle but he's going to get starter money elsewhere. I know they like the young guys at the back of the roster, if one emerges during camp I could see them making a move. Bahktiari is likely here at least until the trade deadline.

That makes some sense. Use him carefully, keep him healthy, show that he can still play at a high level - then trade him after you've gotten some use from him this year. It's a risk but perhaps worth taking.

I see that the Packers also claimed a center off waivers from Tennessee, who will take Garvin's spot on the roster. I also see some fumbled exchanges between Myers and Love. While I hope Myers works out, he seems the weak link on the line so far.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I asked statmuse.com for a list of QBs who have been to championship games more than once. Statmuse asked me for $20/mo subscription. I did get a (partial?) list that may be useful. Don't know if 2x QBs are complete, and that's most interesting part. My theory is JAG QBs getting to championship games was more common before ~2010. Just my perception.

Tom Brady 14
Steve Young 7
Joe Montana 7
Roger Staubach 7
John Elway 6
Terry Bradshaw 6
Patrick Mahomes 5
Aaron Rodgers 5
Ben Roethlisberger 5
Peyton Manning 5
Donovan McNabb 5
Brett Favre 5
Jim Kelly 5
Ken Stabler 5
Fran Tarkenton 5
Koy Detmer 4
Troy Aikman 4
Frank Reich 4
Bernie Kosar 4
Gary Kubiak 4
Danny White 4
Earl Morrall 4
Craig Morton 4
David Humm 4
Jimmy Garoppolo 3
Joe Flacco 3
Drew Brees 3
Kurt Warner 3
Mark Brunell 3
Jay Schroeder 3
Jim McMahon 3
Dan Marino 3
Don Strock 3
Bob Griese 3
Mike Tomczak 3
Joe Burrow 2
Russell Wilson 2
Colin Kaepernick 2
Matt Ryan 2
Mark Sanchez 2
Eli Manning 2
Jake Delhomme 2
Rich Gannon 2
Steve McNair 2
Kordell Stewart 3
Drew Bledsoe 2
Kerry Collins 2
Neil O'Donnell 2
Steve Bono 2
Mike Pagel 2

[run pMc]

Thanks for posting. A few thoughts (not being nitpicky, just my own opinions):

I think Tom Brady skews things.
I also agree that more JAG QBs made it that far pre 2010 because of league rules and the emphasis on the passing game.
Back in the 80's a strong defense and running game would get you far. I'd expect more RBs drafted high back then.

Many of those QBs aren't JAGs... they may not have been elite but they were top 10-12. Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair for example. Earl Morrall won MVP in 68.
I think the number on Gary Kubiak is iffy, if he played that many it was as a kneel-down/mop-up QB. Might be the case with a few others.

[SudsMcBucky]

I have not been keeping up very well with that side of things, Suds. What's the cap implication if they wanted to trade him this season?

This year he count $21MM against the cap if we keep him. If we trade him, it's a $38MM hit. NEXT year is when he goes, because if he stays on at his current contact, his hit would be $40MM, but if we cut/trade him next year, our hit would be $19MM.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Thanks for posting. A few thoughts (not being nitpicky, just my own opinions):

I think Tom Brady skews things.
I also agree that more JAG QBs made it that far pre 2010 because of league rules and the emphasis on the passing game.
Back in the 80's a strong defense and running game would get you far. I'd expect more RBs drafted high back then.

Many of those QBs aren't JAGs... they may not have been elite but they were top 10-12. Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair for example. Earl Morrall won MVP in 68.
I think the number on Gary Kubiak is iffy, if he played that many it was as a kneel-down/mop-up QB. Might be the case with a few others.

I completely agree with the parts where you completely agree with me. And the rest looks OK

I wish I had a more complete list because the JAGs and recents are skewed towards 1-2 appearances. Perhaps I will put my unpaid Mexican intern on the task.

But the list does contain one shocking reveal: a QB named David Humm played in 4 Championship games. The hummer references must have sucked.

[Harlan Huckleby]

PS. I assume the list is for starting QBs. Otherwise it would be overrun with clipboard holders.

[bobblehead]

When you move the goalposts (2 appearances) you have lost the argument.