Packers vs Lions Discussion Thread

[bobblehead]

First thing, just as with Joe Barry's defense, probably coaching has a lot to do with it. I think it's safe to say that a lot of teams/a lot of O Line coaches have a lot better performance with equal or worse talent.

Secondly, this was one horrible game. A lot of people in here are panicking and making it seem worse than it is.

Injuries mostly to blame. You can fade Bak if Jenkins is there. You can fade Jenkins if Bak is there. You can survive with Myers if the rest are in tact. But Myers regression combined with BOTH all pros on the left side going down is just too much. And even with all that Love still held the ball too long on the occasions where they did hold up. Run blocking was abysmal though.

[texaspackerbacker]

That's true, but a LOT of teams a lot of times do really well with the "next man up" thing both regarding the O Line and the defense. Joe Barry is pretty bad that way - amongst the many ways he is pretty bad. It's funny, in past times, we've had whole threads wildly piling on the Packers O line coach by name as being so bad. Honestly, I can't even think of who the O Line coach is now, but he sure doesn't get a pass in this because of the injuries or perceived regression of players like Newman and maybe Myers. Some dumbass in some thread said I never admit when I'm wrong hahahaha. Well, I'm getting close to coming to a conclusion that I was wrong about Myers being so good. Hopefully he snaps out of it.

[RashanGary]

Yeah. He’s not good. I get why you liked him. Bigger guy. Fairly strong. We know you believe in that size/strength thing up front. But he can’t get to his blocks, so he’s whiffing. It’s not going well for Myers.

[run pMc]

Myers isn't bad, he just isn't good. He's average. That KC picked Creed Humphrey right after him is unfortunate luck, but also iffy scouting by GB.

They wanted a taller player at C with experience in big games, toughness, and good athletic ability. Coming out of OSU Myers checked all those boxes. He's struggled with consistency at the pro level. The GB offense also asks a lot of their IOL in terms or reach blocks, pulling, and getting to the second level. That's why they go with good athletes instead of fat ugly slow road graders. It's about scheme fit. You want road graders for power run scheme, you want superior athletes for zone blocking. It's pretty rare to have a C who can execute some of the pulls and reaches they ask of Myers, and I think he's not always up to the task. The other thing is at times he just gets mauled at the POA and you don't want to see that. I wonder if having a shorter/stouter player (6'3" instead of 6'5") would help with better anchor. He gives good effort and isn't a tire fire, but you'd hope for more from a R2 pick.

They will definitely be looking at OL next year -- both at T and especially on the interior. I don't think they can (or will) keep trotting out Newman. They have to find out what they have in Rhyan, and they need to figure out whether to keep Tom at T or move him inside.
Runyan's contract is up, and Myers has one year left... so there will be a lot of decisions to make there. Ideally they don't start 2 rookies on the OL next year.

Safety and RB will be other areas I'd expect they look for help. Oh, and defensive coordinator.

[Sparkey]

Yeah. He’s not good. I get why you liked him. Bigger guy. Fairly strong. We know you believe in that size/strength thing up front. But he can’t get to his blocks, so he’s whiffing. It’s not going well for Myers.

To be fair, no one would look good with Neumann playing next to them. I believe there was one play I saw where Myers handed off a block to Nuemann, but Royce wasn't set deep enough and failed to get even remotely close to picking up the handoff.

[run pMc]

Royce was ok in the NO game, but bad in the DET game. I have to think coaches are looking at all their options for replacing him in the lineup.

Myers has been ok this year. Probably a little better than last year.

[Joemailman]

Royce was ok in the NO game, but bad in the DET game. I have to think coaches are looking at all their options for replacing him in the lineup.

Myers has been ok this year. Probably a little better than last year.

Until Jenkins can go, I'd be moving Tom to LG and start Nijman at RT. They always talk about wanting to play their best 5. I can't believe that includes Newman. If they feel Nijman is a lost cause, I'd put Rhyan in there and see what he can do.

[Fritz]

Myers isn't bad, he just isn't good. He's average. That KC picked Creed Humphrey right after him is unfortunate luck, but also iffy scouting by GB.

They wanted a taller player at C with experience in big games, toughness, and good athletic ability. Coming out of OSU Myers checked all those boxes. He's struggled with consistency at the pro level. The GB offense also asks a lot of their IOL in terms or reach blocks, pulling, and getting to the second level. That's why they go with good athletes instead of fat ugly slow road graders. It's about scheme fit. You want road graders for power run scheme, you want superior athletes for zone blocking. It's pretty rare to have a C who can execute some of the pulls and reaches they ask of Myers, and I think he's not always up to the task. The other thing is at times he just gets mauled at the POA and you don't want to see that. I wonder if having a shorter/stouter player (6'3" instead of 6'5") would help with better anchor. He gives good effort and isn't a tire fire, but you'd hope for more from a R2 pick.

They will definitely be looking at OL next year -- both at T and especially on the interior. I don't think they can (or will) keep trotting out Newman. They have to find out what they have in Rhyan, and they need to figure out whether to keep Tom at T or move him inside.
Runyan's contract is up, and Myers has one year left... so there will be a lot of decisions to make there. Ideally they don't start 2 rookies on the OL next year.

Safety and RB will be other areas I'd expect they look for help. Oh, and defensive coordinator.

I think the bolded area above is quite true. They DO need to see if Rhyan can be a starting guard in this league, and they need to figure out where Tom's best position is.They can also find out this year whether Walker's best position is right tackle or left tackle. Then, too, they've got to see how much Runyan might get on the free agent market. He's solid but not great, and they're already paying Jenkins top dollar. If he's willing to sign for a reasonable sum, that's one less moving piece. I would think they'd be looking also to upgrade at center. So, yes, next draft, probably at least one center, a guard or two, a tackle or two, depending on how this season's offensive line shakes out.

That, along with safety and running back and possible another corner, is going to eat up most of their draft picks.

[RashanGary]

They probably have a pretty good idea whether Rhyan is any good. When they cut Josh Sitton they had a pretty good idea that Lane Taylor was alright even though we didn’t see much of him. Rhyan not playing says a lot.

[run pMc]

Who are the best 5 OL, regardless of position?

Heading into game 1 I'd say it was the starting lineup vs. CHI.
Bakhtiari is done. Jenkins still hurt. Runyan in a walking boot. Tom has a sore knee. Yikes.

I think if we assume no Bakh and Jenkins, but Runyan and Tom can go, you experiment with the line, probably starting with
Walker - Tom - Myers - Runyan - Njiman

That's what I'd try first. I'd give Newman and Rhyan a few snaps to compete for LG as well, but I think you have to move Tom inside and start Njiman at RT if possible. He's better at LT but I think they should be able to get by with him at RT for a game.

I had high hopes for Rhyan, but I think you're probably right about him not being very good and thus explains Newman playing over him. He's only in his second year, and looked better this preseason vs. last, so maybe he'll figure it out by Year 3, but you'd hope/expect more from a R3 pick. Dang curse.

[bobblehead]

Somewhere I whined about our OL going from what I thought was world beaters to wife beaters. Since the discussion in this thread had trended that way I thought this article was a really nice breakdown.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2023/10/02/from-strength-to-weakness-packers-ol-may-need-talent-infusion-in-2024-draft/

[run pMc]

I think the OL if healthy is very good. Few teams are going to have good OLs when you're starting your OL7 and playing your OL8. They have depth but ideally you don't want it to be tested as early or frequently as it has this season.
It's a little early to talk draft, but I think it's always been understood that next year they will go after some OL. They didn't draft a single OL this year; a clear sign they liked who they had as well as having a plan long term.

They'll start to clear Bakhtiari off the books, probably let Runyan and Njiman test FA, get Myers competition, bring in another T and at least one if not two IOL. In other words, a lot of turnover at OL. Maybe they sign a modest priced FA.

Right now, they have players who can mostly pass protect but if you are looking to reset the LOS against a physical defensive front, forget it. I think they will look to change that a little bit. 2 of their first 4 picks will probably be OL. RB and S are other needs, but that's getting ahead of things. Lots of football to go yet.

[Fritz]

How far into the doghouse must Nijman be to not be considered one of the Packers' best five offensive linemen when Bakh and Jenkins are both out? God, what did the guy DO? He's certainly a better tackle than Rolled Royce is a guard, and it appeared last year that Tom could play guard better than Rolled Royce. They tried Newman and he's not getting it done. So move on - either move Tom inside and start Nijman outside, or, if you insist on Nijman riding the pine, then give Rhyan a shot at guard. Or start Tom at center and give Rhyan a shot at guard and get Nijman off the bench. For a team that supposedly values versatility, they seem to be stuck on Walker-Newman-Myers-Runyan-Tom, and that hasn't been working.

[run pMc]

I think Bakhtiari's knee status impacted roster decisions, and I think they lack quality depth at IOL.
Next year I'm guessing Bakh is gone and they will have a bit more cap space. Between that and draft capital they should be able to resolve some of those roster/talent imbalances.

[bobblehead]

How far into the doghouse must Nijman be to not be considered one of the Packers' best five offensive linemen when Bakh and Jenkins are both out? God, what did the guy DO? He's certainly a better tackle than Rolled Royce is a guard, and it appeared last year that Tom could play guard better than Rolled Royce. They tried Newman and he's not getting it done. So move on - either move Tom inside and start Nijman outside, or, if you insist on Nijman riding the pine, then give Rhyan a shot at guard. Or start Tom at center and give Rhyan a shot at guard and get Nijman off the bench. For a team that supposedly values versatility, they seem to be stuck on Walker-Newman-Myers-Runyan-Tom, and that hasn't been working.

He is way in the doghouse. My guess is that they would have cut him, but they want the comp pick by letting him walk after the season.