Serious Question: Love vs Clifford

[Vincenzo]

I’m confident. I’m decisive. But I would be a shitty QB. You need those qualities, but those ain’t enough, Skinny. Love was not the problem today. It was his shitty offensive line, his receivers dropping balls, and his coach calling a shitty game.

He’s not exactly accurate tho. How many passes came up short, how many flew long. Yes he had way too many balls droped that were certainly catchable but overall he didn’t have a great day.

[SkinBasket]

I’m confident. I’m decisive… You need those qualities

Sorry for parsing you, but that is my main point. Yes, you NEED those qualities, as an NFL QB, and whatever you think of Clifford’s other abilities, Love has thoroughly demonstrated he does not have them. As such, time to move on. But management won’t because that would be admitting failure, especially in light of moving on from 12, regardless of what he had left to offer. I just want to be able to watch someone who wants to win, and can accept watching someone fail at that. I refuse to watch someone (Love) who does not have that built into who he is. He is not a winner. He is along for the ride. He is a weed in the wind. He has been handed everything and given nothing. He is dead to me.

[smuggler]

Clifford has a noodle arm, but Love is clumsy and never actually uses his arm.

[run pMc]

Accuracy issues aside, there were things in preseason and earlier in regular season you liked: the poise, the decision making. That has started to go out window. He looks rattled and has started to make more bad decisions. That tells me he doesn't trust his receivers or his OL, and I don't blame him.
Even so, he's got to do better, but I think they have bigger problems tbh. This OL was supposed to be a strength, and the running game was supposed to help him out in his first year. That has not happened, and it's crazy to think it's because the starting LT is on IR. Who knows - SF sure misses Trent Williams.

Injuries have hit the OL hard - I think Jenkins is still fighting thru the knee injury, and Myers and Runyan have been pedestrian this year. They can pass block most of the time but their run blocking has not been good. And Walker has regressed, and Njiman had a bad camp. Usually an OL that has played together the previous year will come out and play well the next, that's not happened and it's hurt the offense considerably. Penalties too. That's not on Jordan Love's fault.

I suppose I sound like I'm defending him -- I'm not on his bandwagon -- but really I'm pointing out that he's a part of the problem, not the entire problem. You could put any QB back there and they'd struggle with that OL and rookie receivers dropping throws and running bad routes. I think with Mahomes back there they'd be a maybe a 4 win team on this schedule.

[King Friday]

I agree that you can’t make a true judgment call on Love at this point. He’s not trending in a great direction, but he’s had a boatload of headwinds throws his way in his first year as a starter. Everyone will compare Love to Rodgers in their first year, but the Packer OL of 2008 was better than our current OL. Gute has proven to be extremely poor at identifying OL talent. He’s hit on one guy, and missed badly on nearly everyone else. In other words, any of us could draft OL talent better. He needs to be asked about it and he needs to be held accountable for how he improves on that. Until he does, it doesn’t matter who our QB is. You can’t have a line that is mediocre in blocking and gets called for holding or being downfield every other possession.

[bobblehead]

Can’t say nothing without being called a racist these days. If you ignore a persons color you’re a racist. If you point out a persons color, you’re a racist. You must all be old people, cuz the kids don’t care no more. Anyway, I’m glad Love vindicated ya’ll today.

As far as what I like better about Clifford, I think I’ve made that pretty clear, but A number 1 is his confidence, followed by his decisiveness, most likely born from said confidence, and finally his gravitas which stands in stark comparison to Love’s flower wallpaper routine. So suck it. He can’t be much worse results wise at this point.

Fair, even if it took a week to get a response. Confidence only takes you so far. I won't go political, but I can give many examples of baseless confidence and it rarely ends well.

And again, I don't mind you pointing out Love isn't playing well, or saying you don't think he ever will, I just wish you would contribute anything else to the general packers forum. However, if you're down to a couple posts a week about it, its not trolling either.

[bobblehead]

I’m confident. I’m decisive. But I would be a shitty QB. You need those qualities, but those ain’t enough, Skinny. Love was not the problem today. It was his shitty offensive line, his receivers dropping balls, and his coach calling a shitty game.

As I've said many times, its symbiotic. Love isn't helping his own cause either. Of course we started last season this way and Rodgers didn't look a hell of a lot better, but he was better. Love has to take some of the responsibility, but all of it would be ridiculous. I don't think this team would be good no matter who our QB was.

[bobblehead]

Sorry for parsing you, but that is my main point. Yes, you NEED those qualities, as an NFL QB, and whatever you think of Clifford’s other abilities, Love has thoroughly demonstrated he does not have them. As such, time to move on. But management won’t because that would be admitting failure, especially in light of moving on from 12, regardless of what he had left to offer. I just want to be able to watch someone who wants to win, and can accept watching someone fail at that. I refuse to watch someone (Love) who does not have that built into who he is. He is not a winner. He is along for the ride. He is a weed in the wind. He has been handed everything and given nothing. He is dead to me.

You could be right or you could be misreading him. Montana often looked like he didn't have that fire either. Since he was winning it was "inner calmness". Since Love is losing its that he "doesn't want to win". Other than saying he won't be Maholmes or prime Rodgers I think the book is still open on Love. He may well wash out, but I am still going with David Carr, Jimmy G, Joe Flacco type career. A guy you can win with until you pay him too much. However, if you surround him with talent and he signs a 5 year $120 million deal you can probably take a couple shots at an Owl. Problem is that they will either cut him or give him 4 years $170 million after next year. Thats what teams do. The Ravens paid Lamaar like a top 5 QB. The cowboys paid Dak like a top 5 QB. I could go on and on about paying guys big contracts and then not being able to field enough talent around them.

[texaspackerbacker]

I’ve seen the good judgment I’d expect from Love after backing up Rodgers. I see way more mobility than I expected from him. I don’t see clumsiness, just a lot of throwing off platform same as Rodgers and Favre and Mahomes - and that’s a good thing. Yeah there is occasional inaccuracy but not as much critics think.

I have a high opinion of Clifford also - a very capable backup and a bargain of a pick.

[Fosco33]

Goot basically said he’s got 10 games to prove he can start in the league.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38794373/packers-gm-unsure-jordan-love-long-term-future-franchise?platform=amp

[run pMc]

From that ESPN article:

Love ranks last in completion rate (57.7%) among the 32 qualifying quarterbacks, just behind the Jets' Zach Wilson (58.3%). The Packers rank 25th in total yards per game and 21st in passing yards per game.

Not exactly where you want him to be. I think the OL and receivers and lack of a running game all have made the evaluation of Love a little tougher to make, but I'm fine with them giving him the entire season to figure it out. I expect them to give him time next year too. Even if they somehow drafted Drake Maye I'd expect Love to be the starter on Day 1 of training camp.

His accuracy is not great but with a good enough supporting cast he's talented enough to win some games. That supporting cast has not been there this season. You could say the strengths of the offense (OL, RBs, an expected Watson/Doubs year 2 leap, MLF's scheme) have evaporated.

As for Clifford, I think he's a fine guy to have on the QB room and clipboard holder, but I don't want him playing meaningful snaps this year. I don't think he's an upgrade over Love, and I'm not even sure there's that much upside to him. I think he could get you out of a game with a lead, but I don't think he's going to win you games as a starter or get you to playoff contention given a half season of starts. Not unless you give him Deebo, Chase, and Bijon.

[RashanGary]

If we drafted Drake Maye, I think Love would start the first half of the season, but you’d want to see Maye play before you decide to let Love go.

[bobblehead]

Goot basically said he’s got 10 games to prove he can start in the league.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...e?platform=amp

"When the group as a whole is not functioning the way it should function, then it's hard to evaluate anybody," Gutekunst said.

This is similar to what I keep saying about it being symbiotic. When one starts playing better it has a domino effect. Its the reason you see guys who look damn good playing for X sign a free agency contract with Y and shit the bed. Some people are products of their environment, and some people impose their will on their environment. We need more of the latter.

[Fosco33]

I’m w/ you Bobble. Too early to throw in the towel

[Bretsky]

Of course it's too early.

With that being said, I don't see hope that the Luv Machine reaches the elite status you want in a high priced QB; using a 1st and a 4th on Love looks bad right now, and using two 2nd round draft picks for Watson looks bad as well for Gutebag