Cap affect of paying as you go vs pushing out and having dead space

[sharpe1027]

Exactly. I would absolutely HATE it if a team I'm a fan of tore down to rebuild, as a few occasionally have done in the NFL as well as in MLB and other sports.

Sharpe's example is valid too, but it would be rare enough to be irrelevant.

Bahktiari could have been cut last year if not for his accelerated cap hit being enormous. Instead we were forced to carry $21M in wasted cap that could have been used elsewhere. We can cut him this year but it's $20M dead cap wasted.

Rodgers cost over $20M last year that we wouldn't have had to deal with if not for a huge signing bonuses.

It happens plenty.

[ThunderDan]

Player contract #1
Signing bonus $5M
SALARY
Y1 $10M
Y2 $15M
Y3 $20M
Y4 $20M
Total= $70M

Contract #2
$40M signing bonus
Y1 $1m
Y2 $4M
Y3 $10M
Y4 $15M

$70M total compensation.

Player can't stay on the field due to constant hamstring problems and sleeps with the star QBs wife.

Contract #1 you cut him year 2 and he's only counting $4M against your cap. Contract #2 he counts $30M. It doesn't happen every time thst you want to cut or trade a plaher before the contract runs out. But it does happen and you'll pay more on average with the second approach.

This is exactly what the cook the cap group doesn't understand. As soon as you have to cut a player who you kicked a contract down the road you are screwed.

Just look at the 2024 Packers. If we hadn't dealt ARod to NY and took the cap hit last year, we would be $40,000,000 over the cap. You could cut Bacht, Jones, Smith, Clark and Campbell to get cap relief of $34 M. We would still be $6,000,000 over the cap.

Love walks because we have no cap room to sign him to a contract.

You can't extend players on their first contracts until the final year, so there are no games to be played there with our promising up-and-comers.

[ThunderDan]

And just so APB doesn't have to get his panties in a bunch, the Packers have plenty of cash to pay all of their players.

[RashanGary]

Player contract #1
Signing bonus $5M
SALARY
Y1 $10M
Y2 $15M
Y3 $20M
Y4 $20M
Total= $70M

Contract #2
$40M signing bonus
Y1 $1m
Y2 $4M
Y3 $10M
Y4 $15M

$70M total compensation.

Player can't stay on the field due to constant hamstring problems and sleeps with the star QBs wife.

Contract #1 you cut him year 2 and he's only counting $4M against your cap. Contract #2 he counts $30M. It doesn't happen every time thst you want to cut or trade a plaher before the contract runs out. But it does happen and you'll pay more on average with the second approach.

There isn’t an example in the last 20 years of the contract you listed first. Nothing even in the ballpark. So that’s not really something we should be considering in this discussion. The second contract had 41M guaranteed and the first had 15 million guaranteed. Those aren’t the same thing.

If you wanted to compare equal contracts that way, you’d have to knock team 2s signing bonus down to 14M

[RashanGary]

Im chilling with my son so don’t have time to draw up comparable 70M deals with comparable guaranteed money. But we really do have to set what you just typed up aside and move into something that actually applies to the NFL and also something with similar guarantees.

[sharpe1027]

There isn’t an example in the last 20 years of the contract you listed first. Nothing even in the ballpark. So that’s not really something we should be considering in this discussion. The second contract had 41M guaranteed and the first had 15 million guaranteed. Those aren’t the same thing.

If you wanted to compare equal contracts that way, you’d have to knock team 2s signing bonus down to 14M

Seriously? Your example is not real either. The purpose of my example just to show the difference between pushing money into later years using the signing bonus.

[CaptainKickass]

Yeah. I'm nitpicking. Since "simplistic" already means so simple that it denotes a lack of understanding of the issue, the use of "too" is, well, too much.

Next, try to teach what seems like the entire sports universe, the super important vocabulary lesson highlighting the proper use of Dominant vs Dominate which I maintain is a fool's errand - yet find their repeated misuse annoying as fuck.

Example of proper use:
Gute has been dominant in the two previous drafts.
Gute will dominate the upcoming draft.

For the sake of thread integrity here's some broad kicking the cap:






This has mostly been a simplistic public service message.

[RashanGary]

Seriously? Your example is not real either. The purpose of my example just to show the difference between pushing money into later years using the signing bonus.

There is a huge difference between what I did and what you did.

Taking cap hits earlier as one method happens. Likewise, structuring so the hits are taken later with void years to pay even later is another method. Teams really do use both methods.

Using simple contracts help illustrate a point. That’s not the issue I have. You used your example to surmise that paying later means you can’t get out of a contract as easy. I think we can both easily agree that what you actually showed was that guaranteeing less money makes it easier to get out of a contract sooner. So the actual difference is when you get a player to sign a horrible contract for himself, the team wins. And yes, I do agree to that. But it really has nothing to do with what we’re talking about here. This is about the cap hits, not about suckering players into horrible deals. We need a new thread for that.

[RashanGary]

Come back with similar guarantees and show the same money distributed the two different ways and then we can see if it’s easier to get out of in the second year. Hint, hint, it’s not. So you don’t need to waste your time.

[RashanGary]

And yes, I’m being a dick like bobble. I, too, am an asshole. But I’m a little insulted by the argument. It’s not genuine and I know you know the difference so I’m firing back.

[sharpe1027]

Come back with similar guarantees and show the same money distributed the two different ways and then we can see if it’s easier to get out of in the second year. Hint, hint, it’s not. So you don’t need to waste your time.

That's factually wrong. If the guaranteed money hits the cap earlier in the contract, you can cut them more easily than if you backload the same guaranteed money, e.g., through a signing bonus

Don't be a dick.

[RashanGary]

That's factually wrong. If the guaranteed money hits the cap earlier in the contract, you can cut them more easily than if you backload the same guaranteed money, e.g., through a signing bonus

Don't be a dick.

If you guarantee the same amount of money, you still pay the same amount of money, so what are you saving again?

[RashanGary]

If you pay 50 million in the first year and cut them, but you already took the full 50M hit… yes, you’re not paying for it anymore. But if you already paid the 50million for one year and took the hit, are you really gaining anything? No. It’s a ridiculous argument.

[sharpe1027]

I think Bahk's contract was restructured to convert a large roster bonus to a signing bonus. If they hadn't done that, we'd pay him basically the same amount through this year, but we could cut him with much less dead cap. We chose a contract with the same guaranteed money hitting later years. Now we're stuck with a worse cap situation in exchange for more room when we restructured.

We can't get out as easily now.

[RashanGary]

Here’s a very realistic way of describing in a metaphor.


If you have the cap hits later, you’ll have to cut your arm off later.

But instead of paying later, you just cut your arm off now. And what you’re saying is since you already cut your arm off, you’re winning because you don’t have to cut it off later.

You paid 40 mil. I paid 40 mil. No ones getting out of that guarantee with both arms. Sorry man.