A tale of two seasons

[Frozen Tundra]

The tale of 2 seasons didn't just apply to Love either. The youngest receiver corps we've seen started to figure some things out too. There were some throws by Love in the 1st half of the season that looked inaccurate that I thought were actually Love and the receiver not quite on the same page. It was dynamite when it all came together starting in November.

I think there was an enormous factor at work this past season that nobody is talking about, and I don't know if anyone is even seing it - the Vrable Factor.

The idea that all 4-6 young receivers just suddenly looked like 2 year veterans, in the span of a few weeks mid-season, completely on their own (as well as the first year quarterback, who suddenly started finding the receivers he'd been missing on their routes for the first ~2 months) just doesn't seem plausible to me. I think it's far more likely that there was someone behind this - that someone coordinated this, someone coordinated this growth, coached all these players up and taught them how to take these giant steps in their development.

Like for example, the wide receivers coach and passing game coordinator; Jason Vrable. The guy whose specific job description is to do exactly that - teach each of the wide receivers on an individual basis the basic tools and techniques to do ther jobs at the NFL level, and teach those receivers and the quarterback how to coordinate with one another in the larger context of the team's passing game.

My gut feeling is that it's very unlikely this all happened just happened by accident, or that all these players who had only 4 of 5 game's worth of live NFL experience just suddenly saw the light all by themselves in the same 2-3 week period. There is a man on our coaching staff who is being paid to do this, who works closely every day as part of a 2-man team with quarterbacks coach Tom Clements, and I think it's far more likely that those 2 men just.... did their jobs. I really don't know why this isn't being talked about more.

And if you look at the comments from the players over the course of the season, you'll see a consistent theme of remarks that support this. The receivers frequently credited Vrable with teaching them how to support one another, work as a team, and read their responsibilities in any given situation. They said he had very high expectations of them, and never gave them slack because they were rookies - said he told them he expected as much of them as he would expect from veterans, but did understand that because they were inexperienced, they needed to be taught differently. Lafleur also has spoken very higly of Vrable and his methods and his hard work whenever the subject comes up.

I think we all owe a lot more to Vrable than we realize, and probably to Clements as well. I'm looking forward to seeing what this passing game looks like next year, with the addition of Sean Mannion to the 2-man team of Clements and Vrable. I know Lafleur's crazy about Mannion, and has big plans for him.

[bobblehead]

Lol.

Something I remember from the end of the season was the bulk of his picks were passes intended to Glass Cannon Watson. You remove those from his stat line and his numbers are even more impressive.

The bulk of his picks were late in games we were trailing....which is kind of what you would expect from your QB. If he was targeting Watson more that could be construed in several ways.

[bobblehead]

I think there was an enormous factor at work this past season that nobody is talking about, and I don't know if anyone is even seing it - the Vrable Factor.

The idea that all 4-6 young receivers just suddenly looked like 2 year veterans, in the span of a few weeks mid-season, completely on their own (as well as the first year quarterback, who suddenly started finding the receivers he'd been missing on their routes for the first ~2 months) just doesn't seem plausible to me. I think it's far more likely that there was someone behind this - that someone coordinated this, someone coordinated this growth, coached all these players up and taught them how to take these giant steps in their development.

Like for example, the wide receivers coach and passing game coordinator; Jason Vrable. The guy whose specific job description is to do exactly that - teach each of the wide receivers on an individual basis the basic tools and techniques to do ther jobs at the NFL level, and teach those receivers and the quarterback how to coordinate with one another in the larger context of the team's passing game.

My gut feeling is that it's very unlikely this all happened just happened by accident, or that all these players who had only 4 of 5 game's worth of live NFL experience just suddenly saw the light all by themselves in the same 2-3 week period. There is a man on our coaching staff who is being paid to do this, who works closely every day as part of a 2-man team with quarterbacks coach Tom Clements, and I think it's far more likely that those 2 men just.... did their jobs. I really don't know why this isn't being talked about more.

And if you look at the comments from the players over the course of the season, you'll see a consistent theme of remarks that support this. The receivers frequently credited Vrable with teaching them how to support one another, work as a team, and read their responsibilities in any given situation. They said he had very high expectations of them, and never gave them slack because they were rookies - said he told them he expected as much of them as he would expect from veterans, but did understand that because they were inexperienced, they needed to be taught differently. Lafleur also has spoken very higly of Vrable and his methods and his hard work whenever the subject comes up.

I think we all owe a lot more to Vrable than we realize, and probably to Clements as well. I'm looking forward to seeing what this passing game looks like next year, with the addition of Sean Mannion to the 2-man team of Clements and Vrable. I know Lafleur's crazy about Mannion, and has big plans for him.

Not to be too snippy but...duh. That's his job. I don't think anyone ever claimed they figured it all out themselves. The coaching staff deserves a lot of credit, but having very young guys improve as they go is expected, not shocking. Guys got healthy, guys started understanding their role a little better, etc. I said it many times, it only takes a small across the board improvement to make the end product look dramatically different. You can't point to ONE thing/guy. The OL stabilized, the WRs started figuring out the little things, Love gained confidence he could stand there for .7 seconds longer and the WR would be where he belonged...oh and Jones got healthy and kept the chains in the right place. Which ONE thing was the difference, Walkers improvement, Jones getting healthy, Wicks getting healthy, Krafts improvement, Reeds improvement or Love gaining confidence. The answer is yes.

[Frozen Tundra]

Not to be too snippy but...duh. That's his job. I don't think anyone ever claimed they figured it all out themselves.

Uh-huh. When's the last time you a WR coach/passing game coordinator do anywhere near that kind of a job in 2 1/2 months' time, with 2nd year WRs, 4 rookies (one an UDFA), and a first year starting quarterback? I'm not coming up with much there.

The man didn't just do "a" job, he did an exceptional job, and I think he deserves some credit - even from this board. You watched the games; you can't have missed the number of times these kids made veteran plays to drag the back foot inbounds, secure the ball before crossing the goal line, and countless other smart, heads-up plays. You can't have forgotten how half the league was talking about how smart and professional this entire position group became halfway through the season, how improved their route-running was across the board, and I don't buy that the O-line helped them make those specific plays and run those routes. I don't think Jones or Love had any impact on their route-running, their situational awareness, and their smart, heads-up play.

Obviously, a lot of credit has to go to the kids too. These are smart, talented players; the WR scouts did an outstanding job. But with players that young - and not one veteran player in the entire corps - there's just no way the position coach/passing game coordinator didn't play a huge role in that turnaround. Those hundred little things that they suddenly started doing right didn't suddenly come to them in an ayahusca retreat; they were taught.

[texaspackerbacker]

the change also happened when lefleur told love to stop over thinking and being too cautious, and just let the ball fly

I doubt LaFleur ever said anything that stupid. The best thing about Love is that he in fact does play like Rodgers in terms of not throwing interceptions.

We certainly did hit it big on this bumper crop of good receivers, but I absolutely do think that it was more about Love making them better than vice versa.

Yeah, Love was playing HIS game, but his game fortunately, is a LOT like Rodgers' game.

Why did things get better the second half of the season? Hard to say. A bunch of factors mentioned by others as well as jitters overcome by experience and a dose of better luck. Whatever the cause, I fully expect the good things to continue into next season and long beyond.

[Frozen Tundra]

I doubt LaFleur ever said anything that stupid. The best thing about Love is that he in fact does play like Rodgers in terms of not throwing interceptions.

But you know, one of the things I love the most about Love is that even though he values protecting the ball, he doesn't seem to be as pathologically obsessed with "not throwing picks" as Rodgers was. I've said this 100 times, you could practically see the man working out his revised QB rating after every single pass, and sometimes I wondered if he was fixated on what each pass would do to his QB rating while he was still deciding whether or where to throw it.

Favre's style was loose, spontaneous, and often careless, and that was a big part of why he was so damned much fun to watch. But, also a big part of why a lot of Packer fans threw bricks through their TV screens in January.

Rodgers spent 3 years standing on the sideline next to McCarthy while (every time Brett threw a high risk pass, and god knows he threw a lot of them) McCarthy said, "see what he did there? don't do that." He probably came away with a long list of things Favre did that he shouldn't do. And when it was his turn, there were many, many times Rodgers seemed to prioritize mistake-free ball over keeping the damned drive alive and giving his team the best possible chance to win the game.

Love spent 3 years standing on the sideline next to LaFleur while Lafleur constantly told him, "see that? that was good, do that. But see that one? don't do that."

I'm thinking Love came away understanding that sometimes, a great quarterback needs to take a risk in order to make a play, which is something Rodgers friggin' hated to do. Aaron would rather eat the ball or throw it away than risk a pick, but sometimes a high-risk pass is the best (and even only) play a truly great QB can make.

I'm hoping Love will be the best of both worlds - a man who prioritizes protecting the ball and not making plays that are actually stupid-risky, but at the same time smart enough to understand that the smartest play in any given game situation might be to accept the risk and try to squeeze one in there in order to keep the drive alive - give your receiver a chance to make a play, at least. (Just maybe not quite like that season-ender against the Niners; hopefully he learned a big lesson from that).

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah, when there's 5 seconds on the clock and you need a TD, THAT's the time to take a risk. Just about any other time, hell no. It seems like Love absorbed that from Rodgers, and I'm damn glad he did. It's gonna get us a LOT of winning football for a long time.

McCarthy being constantly negative, don't do that? LaFleur being even handed - do that, don't do that? I don't know, Maybe, but I think you're reading a lot into it that there just isn't evidence of.

I don't think either Rodgers or Love did a lot of just eating the ball when nobody was open. Both used their legs to either buy time or find somebody open a lot more with safe throwaways as needed. In addition to very very few interceptions in general, both had very very very few interceptions by taking risks. And if that continues another 10 or 15 years, we'll have a whole lot of winning football.

[sharpe1027]

I believe there's a sweet spot between reducing interceptions and being too conservative. It's not as easy as just concluding less interceptions is always good no matter what you give up to get there.

Interceptions give the ball to the other team no different than a punt, but with different average field position. Killing several drives isn't worth saving one interception. I don't know exactly how many killed drives the stats say are worth one interception, but I suspect it's less than many think.

[bobblehead]

I believe there's a sweet spot between reducing interceptions and being too conservative. It's not as easy as just concluding less interceptions is always good no matter what you give up to get there.

Interceptions give the ball to the other team no different than a punt, but with different average field position. Killing several drives isn't worth saving one interception. I don't know exactly how many killed drives the stats say are worth one interception, but I suspect it's less than many think.

Clifford didn't throw a pick all season!!

[Frozen Tundra]

McCarthy being constantly negative, don't do that? LaFleur being even handed - do that, don't do that? I don't know, Maybe, but I think you're reading a lot into it that there just isn't evidence of.

There was a lot of evidence at the time of McCarthy watching the game on the sideline with Rodgerv and discussing plays with them as they happened, coaching Rodgers, and teaching him with Favre's examples. It was never any secret; McCarthy and Rodgers both spoke of it openly.

Before the first game of McCarthy's first season here, he was out in front of the press openly stating that Favre needed to rein in the interceptions; that McCarthy wouldn't accept those mistakes from a veteran quarterback - and for the next 2 years, McCarthy made no secret of how pissed he was when Favre was picked.

During those first couple of years, when reporters asked McCarthy what he was telling Rodgers on the sidelines, he plainly said he was teaching him what to do and not to do from watching Favre, and of course that included the interceptions. Jennings said a couple of times it was clear to the team that Rodgers was taking that lesson seriously, and Rodgers said in interviews afterwards that one of the most important lessons he lerned in those early years was how much an interception just sucked the air out of the whole team - how excited everyone would be on the sidelines watching the drive, and all of a sudden, whomp. D back on the field, morale just shot on the whole sideline.


It's not "negativity", it's coaching. McCarth was never a really great coach, but he was good enough to not waste those opportunities to raise Aaron up right.

[Fritz]

There was a lot of evidence at the time of McCarthy watching the game on the sideline with Rodgerv and discussing plays with them as they happened, coaching Rodgers, and teaching him with Favre's examples. It was never any secret; McCarthy and Rodgers both spoke of it openly.

Before the first game of McCarthy's first season here, he was out in front of the press openly stating that Favre needed to rein in the interceptions; that McCarthy wouldn't accept those mistakes from a veteran quarterback - and for the next 2 years, McCarthy made no secret of how pissed he was when Favre was picked.

During those first couple of years, when reporters asked McCarthy what he was telling Rodgers on the sidelines, he plainly said he was teaching him what to do and not to do from watching Favre, and of course that included the interceptions. Jennings said a couple of times it was clear to the team that Rodgers was taking that lesson seriously, and Rodgers said in interviews afterwards that one of the most important lessons he lerned in those early years was how much an interception just sucked the air out of the whole team - how excited everyone would be on the sidelines watching the drive, and all of a sudden, whomp. D back on the field, morale just shot on the whole sideline.


It's not "negativity", it's coaching. McCarth was never a really great coach, but he was good enough to not waste those opportunities to raise Aaron up right.

This Be the Verse

by Phillip Larkin

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.


Famous opening lines of a famous poem.