IN GUTEBAG, DO YOU REALLY TRUST ?????

[sharpe1027]

I agree with Patler.

[Fritz]

I do think the grade depends in large part how Love's next year or two turn out. For better or worse, a GM's job rating depends on how good his team is, which depends most of the time on how good the QB is. So you get judged in large part by the QB you acquire and play. And that's Love. Was it a good pick at that spot in the draft? Seems so. But signing Love to the mega deal is the bigger part of it - that's a lot of the sal cap to invest in a guy who had a half of a good year. So if Love pans out as we hope, Gute's grade will move up. If Love sputters again, down goes the grade.

I'm glad the guy can own up to his mistakes by not hanging on to them. But I wish he didn't make so many in the first round.

[bobblehead]

Actually, I think Gute admits to mistakes faster than many GMs. Does he play to the media like Wolf did? No. Does he make self-deprecating remarks to be "one of the guys" with the media? No.

What Gute has done to admit his mistakes is move on from the players by cutting or trading them even before their rookie contracts are up. Even high draft picks and players he used two draft picks for by trading up to draft them. Jace Sternberger, Amari Rodgers, Josh Jackson, J'Mon Moore, Royce Newman, Anders Carlson (not a higher round pick, but a pick used on a kicker is noteworthy}. Gute doesn't make a big deal about it, just moves on from the player. Sometimes in the past it has seemed that a pick in rounds 1-4 had a four-year career in the bag.



What constitutes a "veteran" leader? He brought in 2 last year in their fifth seasons, one in his 6th, and one in his 10th. This year he has signed two in their fifth seasons and one in his 7th.

In the past he signed guys like Mercedes Lewis, Jared Veldhere, Jimmie Graham, Ricky Wagner, Jarran Reed, Dennis Kelly, Christian Kirksey, Billy Turner, Campbell, Ford, Leavitt, Wilson, Pat O'Donnell who had 5, 6, 7, 10 or more years in the league. Some played a lot as starters or reserves filling in for injured starters. Had the Packers won a SB in those years, we would have talked about those signings just as we do about Wilkerson.

Patler, you had a really nice post going, then you mentioned Jimmy Graham and I threw up on my keyboard.

[bobblehead]

Incidentally if we were to win the Owl this year (definitely in the realm of possible outcomes) does he instantly get the A? I would think he almost has to given the overall body of work. Philly lost a few key defensive players and we held them to 22 points. I expect our young roster to be better and I don't see any team in the league that I can say with certainty we can't compete with.

Det, Phi, GB all have to be in the discussion to emerge in the NFC. Wash is a year out yet. MN was sort of a fluke imo and they are starting over at QB AGAIN. Rams could be the darkhorse. Any given year and all, but I think GB has to be among the top 3 to emerge. And I got 24-1 the other day so I put my money where my mouth is and dropped $200 on it.

A big question I have to ask is, how injured was Love most of the year. He didn't run AT ALL. Factor in cleaning up some drops and he might just have a monster season. But then again, if he wasn't hurt and just chose to stop running then I have to worry.

[ThunderDan]

I do think the grade depends in large part how Love's next year or two turn out. For better or worse, a GM's job rating depends on how good his team is, which depends most of the time on how good the QB is. So you get judged in large part by the QB you acquire and play. And that's Love. Was it a good pick at that spot in the draft? Seems so. But signing Love to the mega deal is the bigger part of it - that's a lot of the sal cap to invest in a guy who had a half of a good year. So if Love pans out as we hope, Gute's grade will move up. If Love sputters again, down goes the grade.

I'm glad the guy can own up to his mistakes by not hanging on to them. But I wish he didn't make so many in the first round.

I was going to post this but I am in the office 70+ hours right now.

How the ARod to Love transition works out long-term will determine the final grade.

[call_me_ishmael]

Good thread here. I guess I think he's really good at everything other than drafting. I'd like to see more success. Agreed 2022 was a great draft and agree that he moves on from people at the right time.

I think he will get a chance to find another QB if Love doesn't work out.

Not sure he'll ever win a Super Bowl.

Feels kinda Steeler esque, doesn't he?

[bobblehead]

I was going to post this but I am in the office 70+ hours right now.

How the ARod to Love transition works out long-term will determine the final grade.

To a small extent I disagree with you and Fritz here. If Love is average, but we in an Owl he still gets the A in my book. If Love is stellar and we can't get over the hump, he stays a B. It really comes down to him taking that last step and at least GETTING to a championship game.

[bobblehead]

Good thread here. I guess I think he's really good at everything other than drafting. I'd like to see more success. Agreed 2022 was a great draft and agree that he moves on from people at the right time.

I think he will get a chance to find another QB if Love doesn't work out.

Not sure he'll ever win a Super Bowl.

Feels kinda Steeler esque, doesn't he?

The steelers have won more Super Bowls than any franchise not name Patriots and they are tied with them. Just saying....bad example.

[call_me_ishmael]

The steelers have won more Super Bowls than any franchise not name Patriots and they are tied with them. Just saying....bad example.

Fair. I was thinking more along the lines of consistently good but very rarely great in the current landscape. Feels apt. Steelers are really good drafters though, so maybe a bad example.

[bobblehead]

Fair. I was thinking more along the lines of consistently good but very rarely great in the current landscape. Feels apt. Steelers are really good drafters though, so maybe a bad example.

I got your point, I just think that the facts actually back my viewpoint. If you are always in the mix you can win a few. I do wish we had won one more with each of our HOF QBs so we would be tied as well, but it didn't work out that way. I want to stay in the mix with Love and hopefully we can get hot at the right time (and stay healthy). Last year Detroit got injured and Philly stayed healthy. Both were better than us I believe....however if we had stayed as healthy as Philly who can say for sure. Now FA has weakened them and barely scratched our young ascending team. I like our chances. I do wish we had kept TJ Slayton though. The only loss I feel hurt us.

[Fritz]

I got your point, I just think that the facts actually back my viewpoint. If you are always in the mix you can win a few. I do wish we had won one more with each of our HOF QBs so we would be tied as well, but it didn't work out that way. I want to stay in the mix with Love and hopefully we can get hot at the right time (and stay healthy). Last year Detroit got injured and Philly stayed healthy. Both were better than us I believe....however if we had stayed as healthy as Philly who can say for sure. Now FA has weakened them and barely scratched our young ascending team. I like our chances. I do wish we had kept TJ Slayton though. The only loss I feel hurt us.

As i understand it, the defensive tackle crop this year is pretty promising, so maybe they're thinking they can nab a run-stuffing DT in the fourth or fifth round and replace that way. Or maybe they'll got for one earlier to try to upgrade. I can't tell whether Kenny Clark would be better at the nose or the three. I don't know enough about football to know.

[run pMc]

Patler and others have made some good points. Yes, that includes Tex. Referencing that 2021 draft, I bet SF fans are still roasting John Lynch for trading up for Trey Lance. Jamar Chase would have been deadly in Shanahan's offense.

I agree Gute's R1 picks have not been great. For fun, go look at Ron Wolf's R1 track record. Woof. I do think Gute has made up for it with his lower round picks. Getting a pair of starting tackles in Tom and Walker is incredible, for example. He's also been pretty good in free agency: aside from Jimmy Graham, his big signings have paid off pretty well. I think a B is a fair grade for him. He has room to improve, and if Love flames out the grade could drop a bit. One other criticism I have with the lackluster R1 picks is that your playmakers and difference makers are usually early round picks. You can draft well overall and end up with a good roster -- which they have -- but end up without many or any truly great players. At this point we know they are good, but are they great? I think they need that to get them over the top.

and yes, coaching 100% matters.

[run pMc]

As i understand it, the defensive tackle crop this year is pretty promising, so maybe they're thinking they can nab a run-stuffing DT in the fourth or fifth round and replace that way. Or maybe they'll got for one earlier to try to upgrade. I can't tell whether Kenny Clark would be better at the nose or the three. I don't know enough about football to know.

I think they'd do well to try and get a Kenny replacement. Someone who can (or used to be able to) play both the run and the pass. Slaton was good against the run, but he was no help rushing the passer. The metrics back that up, and if they want to sort out their pass rush problem an interior guy who can play 3 downs would be a good start. There are players in this draft who can help them there and fit Hafley's D.

[run pMc]

There are teams with HOF level QBs who haven't won one SB. Marino & Kelly come to mind. Tarkenton too.

Getting one SB isn't bad, but you always hope for more.

Just putting that out there.

[Fritz]

Guter’s apparent thinking about first rounders lines up with your assessment: you need big play difference-makers, who are mostly athletic freaks, even by NFL standards. So Guter keeps trying to get them in round one, but swings and misses more than (we think?) most GM’s do.