Official OTA/Minicamp Thread

[bobblehead]

And that's the key: is Morgan the equivalent of Rasheed Walker, or will he be by mid-season?

He might be, but I really believe they want Morgan to show massive improvement as a guard and win that Job. The problem is that I want to get much bigger and stronger (and better) on the interior. We did that by replacing Myers with Banks effectively, but if you replace Rhyan with Morgan you may be "better" but you lost a lot of thump on the interior run game. It just doesn't jive with Drafting the 2 big men. For the life of me I can't figure it all out....almost like they are changing their plan and Morgan is the odd man out if he can't beat Walker. Williams is still my bet to finish the season as the RG.

[Fritz]

In that scenario it seems like the hope would be that Morgan shows enough to convince the team he's the LT of the future. Then you don't have to spend to re-sign Rasheed Walker, and you've still got the big interior line. Then they can let Rhyan walk, too, and plug Belton/Williams in there, maybe. Got to save cash where you can so you can pony up for Quay Walker and Devonte Wyatt. Which I'm still not sure are wise moves - neither seems to be worth the big contracts they're going to get. It seems more like the team doesn't have any other options.

[bobblehead]

It really smells like they are either trading Walker or letting him walk in FA (my guess is the latter). They drafted Belton who definitely fits the tackle profile and are letting Morgan compete at tackle, then they drafted a guy who looks like a G/T prospect in the 7th that I think should have gone in the 3rd at the latest unless my eyes are lying. I think they will let Morgan fight to be the swing tackle this year while Belton and Williams improve their bodies. Williams skills are already really effing good. Belton can improve for sure, but he is a massive athlete.

They will let Walker walk (pun fully intended) IF either Morgan or Belton or Williams shows they can be trusted at LT and then the remaining 2 are backup swing men who can hopefully play G in a pinch. I believe all 3 should be able to do that with some work. But the wildcard is still Walker eliminating the penalties and continuing to improve even subtly. That happens they franchise him and sign him to a long term deal and let the others fight for backup duties or win the RG job.

Competition is good. Steel sharpens steel. We'll know what we are looking at much clearer by seasons end (oh, and Monk stays on the roster mostly as a true center).

[Joemailman]

I don't see them trading Walker. They were hurt in the playoff game last year by a lack of depth on the OL when injuries hit. They're a legit Super Bowl contender if the OL is solid. They'll take the comp pick(s) in 2027 for him and maybe Rhyan.

[Fritz]

Agreed, Joe. I think Bobble is on that same line of thinking, generally. If you have SB aspirations that are legit, and I think this team does, then you don't trade away your starting LT. You might, however, let him walk for a third-round comp pick after the season is over.

[smuggler]

Quay losing his job to Simmons, bobble? I seriously doubt that. It's much more likely Simmons doesn't even make the team.

[Joemailman]

Simmons' ST play alone probably gives him a good chance to make the team. If he really shows something on defense, he might impact whether Quay gets a contract extension.

[Fritz]

I thought recent articles suggested that Simmons is being asked to focus on playing linebacker only. But maybe that just means he's not going to be asked to play safety (I think the Gints had him in the safeties room) or defensive end. He is only 26 years old, and is athletic. Yes, if he can play Quay's spot better than Quay does, that might affect the team's thinking. I still struggle with the idea of the Packers signing Walker to a big long-term deal - he just doesn't seem worthy of that. He'll make some good plays but then make some real bonehead plays.

[bobblehead]

Quay losing his job to Simmons, bobble? I seriously doubt that. It's much more likely Simmons doesn't even make the team.

Simmons has been as productive as Quay when given a chance to play, and he has done so while jumping all over the formation. The recent articles about letting him learn a single position and excel at it have me amped. He is a much better athlete than....nearly anyone at his size. Again, politics (don't ban me!!) play a role and I had to watch AJ Hawk make tackles 7 yards downfield for a decade. The "regime" may go with their guy and Quay puts in another lackluster season. For my money I think Simmons is just as good as Quay and probably will be better before camp is over. Last year I said Evan Williams was a better safety than Bullard and Bullard started the season there....but he didn't end it there.

[run pMc]

You absolutely let the #15 LT walk in a contract year when you believe you have the #10 LT on a rookie deal for a few more years.

Remember, the #15 LT is going to be paid like a #5 LT in the open market.

100%. Walker is a decent starter, one a number of teams would love to have, but you aren't going to get a lot in trade for him relative to the comp pick. He'll get Dan Moore ($20M/year) money in FA and if they have replacements waiting in the wings you move on.
Same thing with Rhyan - I think he's gone. Ultimately I don't think the team wants to have more than 3 starting OL on 2nd contracts. Too much cap allocated to one position group. They have Banks and Jenkins now, Tom will be added to that group. That's just how it goes.

Overpaying for players is not smart.

[run pMc]

First, Simmons is a LB, not a S. I'm glad they are playing him as such and only feeding him a few of the LB spots.
Second, he has bought himself time as a potential ST ace; dude is fast for his size and that alone has value on teams.
Third, his metrics as a LB are not significantly better than Quay's. There were times when teams would pick on him. I think Quay's job is safe this year. Indications are they're working on a long term extension with Quay, which I'm ambivalent about. I don't know if he's worth the contract Devondre a few years back.

Simmons is unlikely to replace Quay. If he ends up passing up McDuffie or Hopper, that will be very interesting though. Pass coverage by the LBs in the flats and MOF was an issue last year, and his speed/range might help there. He needs to improve his instincts though, and at this point in his career that may never happen.

[bobblehead]

Quay RAS at LB: 9.63 with a 1.59 10yd

year 3 stats: 102 tackles 2.5 sacks no fumbles or recoveries, no interceptions 2 passes defended


Simmons RAS at LB:9.97 with a 1.55 10yd

year 3 stats: 99 tackles 4 sacks 2 fumbles forced 1 recovered 2 picks 7 passes defended

I submit Simmons is a better athlete and a better football player. I don't know what the fuck the Giants were doing with him to be honest. Maybe I'm wrong. AZ did cut ties, but they do dumb shit all the time. He was a better overall player than Quay was at year 3. Sometimes guys are just victims of circumstance. I loved the guy coming out and I still think he can be a player if given a decent chance to play. I wouldn't go lining him up at safety, but I would use him to cover TEs and RBs. He is far superior to Quay in that regard.

Bottom line, Quay hasn't done anything special to make me think he can hold the job (except be a bad first round pick that Gutes refuses to admit). Cooper made more run stops in limited first year than Quay in his career. Quay is bigger and stout. He has every tool in the box. He should be able to do anything he wants on the football field, but bottom line....he doesn't.

[Joemailman]

In Simmons' 2nd and 3rd seasons he had 7 pass breakups on 70 targets. That seems like an awful lot of targets for an ILB to be facing. Was Simmons so bad that teams wanted to throw in his direction? Did the Cardinals defense make it too easy for opposing offenses to isolate a receiver on an ILB?

The Packers did consult Xavier McKinney about Simmons before signing him.

[bobblehead]

In Simmons' 2nd and 3rd seasons he had 7 pass breakups on 70 targets. That seems like an awful lot of targets for an ILB to be facing. Was Simmons so bad that teams wanted to throw in his direction? Did the Cardinals defense make it too easy for opposing offenses to isolate a receiver on an ILB?

The Packers did consult Xavier McKinney about Simmons before signing him.

Former team mates will tell you a lot about a guys attitude, nothing about talent. I've yet to see a headline "McKinney says former team mate is a great guy but not a very good football player"

All kidding aside, Simmons attitude seems great. His talent is unique. His production has been decent when allowed to play. Remember Simmons lined up at S and even slot with the Cardinals so 70 targets probably occurred because he was covering WR, something I am NOT advocating. All the media/coach speak says he is focusing on off ball LB. I think he has been damn good in that regard. Perhaps he really has been a victim of his immense talent where coaches wanted to turn him into something no one can really be. He is simply too big to be a safety. Too small to be lining up against 300 pound OL (although Quay could have a decent chance in that regard). Simmons is an off ball LB and needs to be used as such. I expect a really nice year from him, although I'm not convinced coaches will use him over Quay even if he earns it. Just like fat mike kept trotting AJ Hawk out there year after year.

edit: Now that I think about it, we will use 3 LB sets often enough. No reason Simmons can't get significant snaps without beating Quay, although 2 LB sets will be more often.