What Should Ed Policy Do With Matt La Fleur?

[pbmax]

The only oddity here is the trade for Parsons. His contract and cap number probably accelerated by one year a number of departures for players that might have hung on for one more year before the Love and other top contracts in general required more trimming. Quay Walker and Doubs weren't coming back with that deal signed.

So you can imagine a scenario where Elgton Jenkins remained for one more year. Maybe Rasheed Walker given his quite low compared to expectations contract with Carolina.

But neither of these guys made the line stellar last season. The run game faltered last year. Walker had a poor year as did Jenkins prior to his injury. Love was pressured at a higher rate last year. They were 9-3-1 at one point though....

Specifically. I think the Guards have failed to develop. I'm not convinced the front office has forgotten how to draft O lineman. I think its development.

That still leaves the question of whether the team failed ZBB's knee in some way. Was surgery an option?

[beveaux1]

We can’t be sure, but the last couple of years we’ve seen starting OL regression, and new OL like Belton, Monk, and Jennings not able to play to a backup NFL level. Also, they miss assignments and leave free runners while double teaming someone else. Not to mention the high penalty count on the OL. It points much more strongly to a development and coaching problem.

[sharpe1027]

There's another possibility.

Instead of drafting dedicated starters, Gutekunst drafts hybrid tweeners and their development is messed up because they are continually forced to play and learn new positions:
Jordan Morgan: Drafted as a left tackle and bounced across four different positions during his first two NFL seasons. Learning these new spots on the fly was bound to be a massive mental struggle.

Anthony Belton: Started 30+ games at left tackle in college, but played right guard as a rookie, and is now giving up a high rate of pressures at right tackle.

When a GM strategy forces young linemen to learn brand-new roles at the professional level, blown assignments and panic holds are not surprising because the players are overthinking instead of reacting. The coaching may be struggling, but Gutekunst is providing mismatched, out-of-position personnel and expecting the staff to work miracles.

[pbmax]

There's another possibility.

Instead of drafting dedicated starters, Gutekunst drafts hybrid tweeners and their development is messed up because they are continually forced to play and learn new positions:
Jordan Morgan: Drafted as a left tackle and bounced across four different positions during his first two NFL seasons. Learning these new spots on the fly was bound to be a massive mental struggle.

Anthony Belton: Started 30+ games at left tackle in college, but played right guard as a rookie, and is now giving up a high rate of pressures at right tackle.

When a GM strategy forces young linemen to learn brand-new roles at the professional level, blown assignments and panic holds are not surprising because the players are overthinking instead of reacting. The coaching may be struggling, but Gutekunst is providing mismatched, out-of-position personnel and expecting the staff to work miracles.

Drafting college tackles isn't anything new and has (formerly) given the Packers a chance to develop very good offensive lines with 3rd and 4th and 5th round players.

And Belton started to play guard as Rhyan flailed at the position.

More concerning to me is the dedication to not slot players WHEN it makes sense. Jennings leapfrogged Burton at LG (a lot of inference here but the coaches mentioned reps) when Burton had to start working at RG to provide backup to Monk. I understand that logic but for pete's sake, when you can put the better player at a position he has practiced and played, you should probably do it.

[pbmax]

Even then, this line is so young beside Rhyan, they would still be stuggling but at least the line of the future would be learning together.

[sharpe1027]

The GM sets the baseline talent floor of the roster. If that floor is so low that a couple of injuries causes the entire unit to collapse into the worst pass-blocking group in the league, the roster lacks fundamental quality, regardless of the level of coaching.
It's Gute's responsibility to get players that the coaches can utilize. If Gute is drafting athletic players that Luke Butkus and Matt LaFleur cannot successfully teach or integrate into their blocking scheme, that isn't just a coaching mistake. It's a breakdown in communication with the coaching staff.

Positional coaches or offensive coordinators can often be the sacrificial lambs that buys a GM another year or two. No thanks. When an entire unit fails catastrophically despite heavy financial and draft investment, stop asking who taught them and start asking who brought them here.

[sharpe1027]

For the record, I'm not advocating to keep MLF. I'm just saying start with Gute.

[MadScientist]

For the record, I'm not advocating to keep MLF. I'm just saying start with Gute.

Agreed. For the most part Gute hasn't drafted that well. Better drafting and player acquisition is sorely needed.

That said, MLF is coming across as way to nice for the NFL. Hell, he's too nice for MLB. Look at the Brewers' manager. He sets expectations for every single player to play hard and play the right way or they are taken out. An all-star player in a game that has no meaning not running out a grounder - on the bench he goes for the rest of the game. No excuses, no sugar coating. Play the right way or don't play. The sloppy, undisciplined play that the Packers are doing should not be tolerated, but they keep doing it game after game.

MLF might have looked good initially with a team full of veteran players who knew how to practice and play, but needed a fresh system to replace one that had gone stale. With a team full of younger players, playing the right way wasn't drilled into them and they are just sloppy.

[Bretsky]

For the record, I'm not advocating to keep MLF. I'm just saying start with Gute.

THIS

[Fritz]

We're talking about this as an either/or when it might be both. After all, LeFleur and Guter are supposed to communicate and coordinate. They're supposed to have a shared vision of how to draft and develop an effective offensive line.

At this point in the season, for me, it's less about wins and losses in the short term and more about how the offensive line looks against an 0 - 3 Tampa team, and more generally how damn many penalties they get. As bad as the offensive line has been, that has overshadowed how undisciplined this team is.

[pbmax]

We're talking about this as an either/or when it might be both. After all, LeFleur and Guter are supposed to communicate and coordinate. They're supposed to have a shared vision of how to draft and develop an effective offensive line.

At this point in the season, for me, it's less about wins and losses in the short term and more about how the offensive line looks against an 0 - 3 Tampa team, and more generally how damn many penalties they get. As bad as the offensive line has been, that has overshadowed how undisciplined this team is.

We almost got rid of silos last time but someone objected.

[Joemailman]

I wonder if MLF would have gotten an extension if Gute had the same power to hire or fire the HC that Ted Thompson had.

[pbmax]

Laying down a marker here. Its not Gute. Its LaFleur if anyone, specifically his offensive assistants and playing time and position decisions.

There is blame for Gute: he had two wipeout drafts early in the LaFleur tenure which necessitated FA signings later. Drafting all that first round D talent has lowered the overall level of the Offense over time, seen especially in its depth.

Signing Parsons put immediate pressure on the cap that would have been delayed and lowered if it was just Love and Gary (Gary likely gets traded anyway given the arc his career is on). So they lost both Elgton Jenkins and Rasheed Walker this offseason though there were reasons to move on from both. Without Parsons, you could argue there might be one more vet on the line.

He missed badly on Banks which is the real sore spot and as bad as he has played if he came back things could spring back to bad from monstrous quickly.

The injury to ZBB seems out of their control but he was not 100% when they let Kinnard go.

But the end result is that if the year is to be saved the kids have to play better. And I am not sure they have the coaching to enable that.

[pbmax]

I wonder if MLF would have gotten an extension if Gute had the same power to hire or fire the HC that Ted Thompson had.

I think the O line is an example of a disagreement that MIGHT have been solved one way or another had they not both been reporting to Policy.

[sharpe1027]

We're talking about this as an either/or when it might be both. After all, LeFleur and Guter are supposed to communicate and coordinate. They're supposed to have a shared vision of how to draft and develop an effective offensive line.

At this point in the season, for me, it's less about wins and losses in the short term and more about how the offensive line looks against an 0 - 3 Tampa team, and more generally how damn many penalties they get. As bad as the offensive line has been, that has overshadowed how undisciplined this team is.

Saying 'it's both' is an easy out that ignores the root cause. If you want to fix this, you have to start with Gute. I'm not absolving MLF of responsibility. I'm just prioritizing.

We have cycled through positional coaches already, and while some players develop fine, others simply do not look like they are NFL-caliber regardless of who is teaching them. Gute is the consistent factor in those failures. As for the penalties we are about to see against Tampa Bay, those aren't just coaching issues—they are also what happens when outmatched players are forced to hold to survive, or when guys are overthinking because the GM's depth strategy was for them to play musical chairs and play out of position when injuries occured.