What Should Ed Policy Do With Matt La Fleur?

[sharpe1027]

Laying down a marker here. Its not Gute. Its LaFleur if anyone, specifically his offensive assistants and playing time and position decisions.

There is blame for Gute: he had two wipeout drafts early in the LaFleur tenure which necessitated FA signings later. Drafting all that first round D talent has lowered the overall level of the Offense over time, seen especially in its depth.

Signing Parsons put immediate pressure on the cap that would have been delayed and lowered if it was just Love and Gary (Gary likely gets traded anyway given the arc his career is on). So they lost both Elgton Jenkins and Rasheed Walker this offseason though there were reasons to move on from both. Without Parsons, you could argue there might be one more vet on the line.

He missed badly on Banks which is the real sore spot and as bad as he has played if he came back things could spring back to bad from monstrous quickly.

The injury to ZBB seems out of their control but he was not 100% when they let Kinnard go.

But the end result is that if the year is to be saved the kids have to play better. And I am not sure they have the coaching to enable that.

Honestly, you might be right. I'm guessing based on partial information. I just don't see the talent with this group. Better coaching would certainly help, but I don't think a new coach fixes the problem. It's just going to paper over the real issue.

[Joemailman]

Andy Herman
@AndyHermanNFL

Going to be a hell of a hot seat showdown this week. The loser of Todd Bowles (potentially starting 0-4) and Matt LaFleur (potentially going 1-3 and losing to a rookie udfa QB) will likely skyrocket up the charts for first coach to fired in season.

[pbmax]

Andy Herman
@AndyHermanNFL

Going to be a hell of a hot seat showdown this week. The loser of Todd Bowles (potentially starting 0-4) and Matt LaFleur (potentially going 1-3 and losing to a rookie udfa QB) will likely skyrocket up the charts for first coach to fired in season.

We don't know who Policy is, but I'd be stunned if they let him go mid-season. If it's truly unrecoverable 2-12 record in December, I could see it in the last month but not now.

The biggest question would be, who runs the offense? Stenavich? Getsy?

Gannon would get the HC interim nod and that would not go well if he's not the successor next year and I wouldn't want him as the sucessor.

[sharpe1027]

While I applaud the proactive steps, you don't sign a bunch of washed up vets off the street, at this point of the season, if you think they guys you have are good enough, but just need better coaching.

[MadScientist]

While I applaud the proactive steps, you don't sign a bunch of washed up vets off the street, at this point of the season, if you think they guys you have are good enough, but just need better coaching.

At this point in the season, they aren't going to get better coaching. Signing guys who don't need coaching is a good move. I'm pretty sure Monk is useless. He's had 3 years to figure it out and hasn't. Even for a rookie, Burton was bad. Maybe better coaching and conditioning could help, but right now a washed-up vet sounds like a godsend compared to Burton.

[sharpe1027]

At this point in the season, they aren't going to get better coaching. Signing guys who don't need coaching is a good move. I'm pretty sure Monk is useless. He's had 3 years to figure it out and hasn't. Even for a rookie, Burton was bad. Maybe better coaching and conditioning could help, but right now a washed-up vet sounds like a godsend compared to Burton.

It's the right move. I just think it's consistent with my view that Gute screwed the pooch when constructing the roster this year.

[ThunderDan]

At this point in the season, they aren't going to get better coaching. Signing guys who don't need coaching is a good move. I'm pretty sure Monk is useless. He's had 3 years to figure it out and hasn't. Even for a rookie, Burton was bad. Maybe better coaching and conditioning could help, but right now a washed-up vet sounds like a godsend compared to Burton.

I still blame MiLF. I think he and Love got a groove going and think they can expand ths playback. He just doesn't realize he has 3 new OL starting this year that need to be coached up before they can unleash the playbook.

[Bretsky]

Laying down a marker here. Its not Gute. Its LaFleur if anyone, specifically his offensive assistants and playing time and position decisions.

There is blame for Gute: he had two wipeout drafts early in the LaFleur tenure which necessitated FA signings later. Drafting all that first round D talent has lowered the overall level of the Offense over time, seen especially in its depth.

Signing Parsons put immediate pressure on the cap that would have been delayed and lowered if it was just Love and Gary (Gary likely gets traded anyway given the arc his career is on). So they lost both Elgton Jenkins and Rasheed Walker this offseason though there were reasons to move on from both. Without Parsons, you could argue there might be one more vet on the line.

He missed badly on Banks which is the real sore spot and as bad as he has played if he came back things could spring back to bad from monstrous quickly.

The injury to ZBB seems out of their control but he was not 100% when they let Kinnard go.

But the end result is that if the year is to be saved the kids have to play better. And I am not sure they have the coaching to enable that.

HOWEVER, if we PASS on Banks, could we have kept the other OL ? I don't pass that complete blame on Parsons.

Plus, his OL DRAFT PICKS HAVE SUCKED and he's let others walk who are legit Starting OL. How can we put on the blindfold to that when we are left with junk ?

[pbmax]

HOWEVER, if we PASS on Banks, could we have kept the other OL ? I don't pass that complete blame on Parsons.

Plus, his OL DRAFT PICKS HAVE SUCKED and he's let others walk who are legit Starting OL. How can we put on the blindfold to that when we are left with junk ?

Bill Huber had a personnel guy discussing the O line situation and he thought there was talent there (mostly at tackle) and Guard needed help (the recent signings). Burton looked exactly like a rookie might. He did admit that Belton needed to develop more strength and anchor, which was the complaint for him last year.

Weirdly, he refused to critique the coaching as he said he respected what they had on the coaching side.

So I am left to suspect we need to bring back the free weights.

Here: https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/onsi/...n-for-optimism

[sharpe1027]

Bill Huber had a personnel guy discussing the O line situation and he thought there was talent there (mostly at tackle) and Guard needed help (the recent signings). Burton looked exactly like a rookie might. He did admit that Belton needed to develop more strength and anchor, which was the complaint for him last year.

Weirdly, he refused to critique the coaching as he said he respected what they had on the coaching side.

So I am left to suspect we need to bring back the free weights.

Here: https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/onsi/...n-for-optimism

That was a damning article. He's saying only one of our offensive lineman might start on a few other teams. The rest are backups at best. The one starter was caveated as being athletic enough to pass block ok, but being soft and not strong enough to run block.

He also said he knew they were getting good coaching.

[pbmax]

That was a damning article. He's saying only one of our offensive lineman might start on a few other teams. The rest are backups at best. The one starter was caveated as being athletic enough to pass block ok, but being soft and not strong enough to run block.

He also said he knew they were getting good coaching.

Everything you said is true. And its not good news, nor is it anything we haven't speculated on here and seen elsewhere.

And I love these kinds of reports. But even this needs context. Butkus doesn't have much of a footprint in football outside of Green Bay beside being an Assistant O Line coach at several stops. Odds seem low this guy knows Butkus' work front to back. He might know Stenavich or the new consultant they brought in (Harry Hiestand). So he likely knows either a part time camp consultant or he knows the O coordinator. Not the O line coach.

Second, former assistant coaches also convinced Ty Dunne that Caleb Williams was going to fail because he wasn't a serious football player. Sometimes insiders have axes to grind.

Also, any serious review of a situation that rules out one entire area for inspection is immediately suspect. Saying "I know they are getting good coaching so the players suck" is at least partially wishful thinking.

[Patler]

The scout clearly has his own biases/preferences, different from the Packers. He said it here:

“They have a type that they look for,” the scout replied. “It’s usually more athlete, pass protectors, good feet, more so than powerful, nasty, tough. Morgan, he fits that. Like, he’s a good athlete, he’s got good feet, but if you’re going down a dark alley, you’re not necessarily taking Jordan Morgan for toughness. But, if you’re playing basketball, I think he’s got good feet and can play on the wing.

I suspect he prefers the type you want for "going down a dark alley" not for "playing basketball."

[sharpe1027]

Agreed. Nobody should over index on one person's opinion, even if they have relevant experience. It is, however, consistent with what I thought from my layman's opinion.

Accordingly, I will personally over index on this article.

[bobblehead]

Bill Huber had a personnel guy discussing the O line situation and he thought there was talent there (mostly at tackle) and Guard needed help (the recent signings). Burton looked exactly like a rookie might. He did admit that Belton needed to develop more strength and anchor, which was the complaint for him last year.

Weirdly, he refused to critique the coaching as he said he respected what they had on the coaching side.

So I am left to suspect we need to bring back the free weights.

Here: https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/onsi/...n-for-optimism

This is my gripe with Belton. He has talent. He has mass. He needed to improve his body and he took the off season....off. A man his size with natural footwork should be good at guard or tackle. Work with a few specialists in the offseason to gain strength and improve the hands. He has natural bend. He should have come into camp and been pancaking dudes from day one this year.

edit: But then I ask again, what was our staff doing. Did they not go over with him where he needed work? Did they just hope a 21 year old kid would have all the answers? Was he just lazy or did they not give him any direction. Burton isn't adjusting to the speed of stunts and such yet. He should be good IF he is coached in the film room and in practice sessions. Williams looked good in fake games, but I can't say how he handles stunts either since it vanilla, block that guy during the pre season. But he doesn't have any serious holes that I saw. Moves well, decent hands, anchors well. If he is ready mentally he needs to be on the field.

[bobblehead]

The scout clearly has his own biases/preferences, different from the Packers. He said it here:

“They have a type that they look for,” the scout replied. “It’s usually more athlete, pass protectors, good feet, more so than powerful, nasty, tough. Morgan, he fits that. Like, he’s a good athlete, he’s got good feet, but if you’re going down a dark alley, you’re not necessarily taking Jordan Morgan for toughness. But, if you’re playing basketball, I think he’s got good feet and can play on the wing."


I suspect he prefers the type you want for "going down a dark alley" not for "playing basketball."

That is fine for a LT, which begs the question why was he playing guard for 2 years. Clifton was like that (I think Morgan is a better run blocker than Clifton though). I prefer guys who scrap to the whistle. Whiffed a block? Better be right behind that guy to flatten him if your QB evades.