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Mike McCarthy's curious decision to hire Kurt Schottenheimer as secondary coach looks even worse now than it did eight months ago.
Schottenheimer undoubtedly could lecture to a group of college coaches at a football clinic and teach most of them new ideas on defense. He has spent a lifetime in the business under a host of distinguished coaches, including Bill Arnsparger, Lou Holtz and his brother, Marty.
His knowledge of the game led him to positions as defensive coordinator in the National Football League at Kansas City, Washington and Detroit. Gunther Cunningham hired him as his coordinator with the Chiefs from 1999-2000, his brother brought him to Washington in '01, and both Marty Mornhinweg and Steve Mariucci had him for a year with the Lions from 2002-'03.
On Jan. 31, McCarthy praised Schottenheimer's vast experience and ability to work well with coordinator Bob Sanders when he announced his hiring.
Nevertheless, the Green Bay Packers deserved better. Their secondary under Schottenheimer's direction in 2004 had a horrible season and, if the first two games of 2006 are any indication, the unit is headed right back into the gutter after a respectable 2005, when Schottenheimer was in St. Louis.
Personnel people who have been looking at the Packers' defense since the start of the exhibition season have remarked about how poorly coached the secondary looks.
One scout keeps talking about the lousy tackling. Another said the Packers' defensive backs generally were close in coverage last season, but now receivers have been more wide open on a consistent basis. Breakdowns are occurring too often.
The failure of several young players to develop this summer was a tip-off that something was amiss. The debacle on Monday night in Cincinnati, when Carson Palmer and his receivers annihilated the Packers, exposed the starting unit.
Rex Grossman and his passing attack had been missing in action all summer until the Chicago Bears got to Lambeau Field on opening day.
Then strong safety Marquand Manuel blew a coverage on the first series and let Bernard Berrian loose 5 yards behind him for a deflating long touchdown. Muhsin Muhammad, who at 33 has seen better days, got open just about whenever he wanted against cornerbacks Al Harris and Charles Woodson. And Grossman picked the secondary apart.
Last Sunday against New Orleans, free safety Nick Collins looked absolutely pathetic giving up long bombs to a broken-down tight end and a rookie wide receiver from Hofstra. Nickel back Ahmad Carroll was skewered for a 26-yard touchdown by a No. 3 wide receiver on a slant-and-go route that wasn't even executed all that well.
Never say never
Never in my wildest dreams did it seem possible that a secondary could possibly be as dysfunctional as the one the Packers fielded in 2004. Never say never.
In two games, the Packers have allowed 10 passes of 20 yards or more, putting them on pace for 60. Two years ago they allowed 61, which was 19 more than their four-year average from 2000-'03.
The opponents' passer rating of 99.1 in 2004 shattered the club record of 86.1 set by Scooter McLean's outfit in '58. In two games, the opponents' rating is 97.1.
One wonders if McCarthy even bothered to examine just how inept the Packers' pass defense was two years ago before hiring Schottenheimer from among the many qualified coaches he could have selected.
The No. 25 ranking in passing yards allowed, worst in Green Bay since the merger in 1970. The 37 touchdown passes in 17 games, another club record. The team record for fewest interceptions with eight. The amazingly high totals of 26 penalties and 15 touchdown passes charged to the starting cornerbacks, Harris and Carroll. And the 7 1/2 touchdown passes and 19 plays of 20 yards or more, both astonishingly horrid numbers, allowed by the starting safeties, Darren Sharper and Mark Roman.
From that season, McCarthy pretty much knew only two players, Harris and Carroll, would be returning this year. He also had decided to rehire Lionel Washington, who was assisting with the defensive backs since 1999.
It is known that McCarthy interviewed 63-year-old Larry Marmie, who was out as defensive coordinator in St. Louis, for the secondary job. It isn't known if he interviewed anybody else.
Schottenheimer, who will turn 57 next Sunday, had been with Marmie in St. Louis as secondary coach. Mike Sherman, an old friend dating to their days on staff at Tulane, fired Schottenheimer shortly after the '04 season.
The relationship between McCarthy and Schottenheimer went back to 1993, when Marty Schottenheimer gave McCarthy his first job in the NFL. McCarthy and Kurt Schottenheimer worked side-by-side for six years in Kansas City.
We'll never know for sure if McCarthy hired Schottenheimer as a favor to Marty Schottenheimer or to give a friend a job. But based on what happened in Green Bay in '04 and in St. Louis in '05, there was little reason to bring him back.
Look at '04, when not one player in the secondary had a good year and most players had brutal years. Sharper easily had his worst season since '99. Roman was horrendous. The draft choices, Carroll and Joey Thomas, brawled outside a meeting room and flopped on the field.
Yes, the Rams' secondary was hit hard by injury last year. But Schottenheimer also played a major role in what a long-time observer called the team's worst tackling secondary since the move to St. Louis in 1995.
The Rams' personnel department had little regard for Schottenheimer's ability as an evaluator, but coach Mike Martz had final say. When the Rams signed safety Michael Hawthorne in April and traded for cornerback Chris Johnson in September, Martz said he relied heavily on Schottenheimer's recommendations based on having coached them.
Hawthorne, according to one member of the Rams' staff, "couldn't play a lick" and was cut shortly after starting the first five games. Johnson played a lot on passing downs and proved worthless, just as he had been in Green Bay.
Several sources said Schottenheimer also played an instrumental role in the Packers' selection of Thomas in the third round. A bust, Thomas currently is on the street.
Laid-back, passive style
Some people who have played for or worked with Schottenheimer describe his style of coaching as laid-back and passive. "He's just not a DB coach," one source said. "You can tell he's not really a DB guy. The good ones are more passionate and direct."
It's interesting that when Marty Schottenheimer gave his brother his first NFL job it was as a special-teams coach, a position that he held for eight years. His only NFL experience as a secondary coach before coming to Green Bay was four years in Kansas City. His final three years at the collegiate level were spent coaching linebackers.
Of course, successful assistants come from all backgrounds. But it's also interesting that possibly the Packers' most impressive position coach, wide receivers coach Jimmy Robinson, not only played wide receiver in the NFL for six years but also has done nothing but coach NFL wide receivers for 17 years.
McCarthy could have retained Joe Baker, the Packers' secondary coach in '05, with whom he had coached with in New Orleans from 2000-'04, but decided against it. Under Baker, who now is quality control coach in St. Louis, Harris and Carroll, even Roman, displayed improvement. And Collins, regarded as a mental risk by some teams, had remarkably few blown assignments and made the all-rookie team.
Secondary coaches have two primary functions. To me, the most important is the day-to-day contact with players involving technique, attitude and standards, both for the present and future. Less important is the ability to contribute in a meaningful way to the scheme and game plan.
Maybe McCarthy hired Schottenheimer for his wisdom with X's and O's. By most definitions, he isn't what one would classify as a dynamic coach on the practice field.
The only returning defensive back that showed improvement from last year would be safety Marviel Underwood, although the body of work was just two weeks before he needed reconstructive knee surgery.
One of the major disappointments was Mike Hawkins. As a rookie, he flashed enough to think he might eventually become a starter. As a second-year player, he almost refused to play hurt and the Packers gave up on him.
Some players regressing
Schottenheimer went to bat for Carroll again this summer, but Carroll's new-found maturity was just a figment of someone's imagination. It's entirely possibly no coach can ever reach him, but for now Carroll seems to have regressed to his rookie level.
Some players make quantum jumps in their second season but, for now at least, Collins isn't any better and might be worse. Billed by officials in Seattle as a great communicator, Manuel seems to have done more agitating than leading.
Neither of the two veterans, Harris nor Woodson, has played to his previous standards. Woodson, according to one scout, "kind of just drifts. He doesn't play with a motor, man. What is he doing? Absolutely nothing."
During his one season under Schottenheimer, Sharper praised the coach for his willingness to listen to veteran players and adapting, if necessary. In an interview at midweek, he called Schottenheimer "a fine coach who did an all right job in 2004 getting the guys prepared and studying. I love him to death." He added: "Schottenheimer might be in the learning process also, learning the defensive scheme from the new coordinator. That could be part of it also."
Whatever the case, the secondary isn't playing as well as it did even last season despite the costly signings of Woodson and Manuel. And anyone who paid attention to the dynamics of that sorry secondary two years ago should have seen this coming.
---
Well said. He's a joke of a DB coach. I say just fire him now. Give the job to Lionel Washington.
Schottenheimer undoubtedly could lecture to a group of college coaches at a football clinic and teach most of them new ideas on defense. He has spent a lifetime in the business under a host of distinguished coaches, including Bill Arnsparger, Lou Holtz and his brother, Marty.
His knowledge of the game led him to positions as defensive coordinator in the National Football League at Kansas City, Washington and Detroit. Gunther Cunningham hired him as his coordinator with the Chiefs from 1999-2000, his brother brought him to Washington in '01, and both Marty Mornhinweg and Steve Mariucci had him for a year with the Lions from 2002-'03.
On Jan. 31, McCarthy praised Schottenheimer's vast experience and ability to work well with coordinator Bob Sanders when he announced his hiring.
Nevertheless, the Green Bay Packers deserved better. Their secondary under Schottenheimer's direction in 2004 had a horrible season and, if the first two games of 2006 are any indication, the unit is headed right back into the gutter after a respectable 2005, when Schottenheimer was in St. Louis.
Personnel people who have been looking at the Packers' defense since the start of the exhibition season have remarked about how poorly coached the secondary looks.
One scout keeps talking about the lousy tackling. Another said the Packers' defensive backs generally were close in coverage last season, but now receivers have been more wide open on a consistent basis. Breakdowns are occurring too often.
The failure of several young players to develop this summer was a tip-off that something was amiss. The debacle on Monday night in Cincinnati, when Carson Palmer and his receivers annihilated the Packers, exposed the starting unit.
Rex Grossman and his passing attack had been missing in action all summer until the Chicago Bears got to Lambeau Field on opening day.
Then strong safety Marquand Manuel blew a coverage on the first series and let Bernard Berrian loose 5 yards behind him for a deflating long touchdown. Muhsin Muhammad, who at 33 has seen better days, got open just about whenever he wanted against cornerbacks Al Harris and Charles Woodson. And Grossman picked the secondary apart.
Last Sunday against New Orleans, free safety Nick Collins looked absolutely pathetic giving up long bombs to a broken-down tight end and a rookie wide receiver from Hofstra. Nickel back Ahmad Carroll was skewered for a 26-yard touchdown by a No. 3 wide receiver on a slant-and-go route that wasn't even executed all that well.
Never say never
Never in my wildest dreams did it seem possible that a secondary could possibly be as dysfunctional as the one the Packers fielded in 2004. Never say never.
In two games, the Packers have allowed 10 passes of 20 yards or more, putting them on pace for 60. Two years ago they allowed 61, which was 19 more than their four-year average from 2000-'03.
The opponents' passer rating of 99.1 in 2004 shattered the club record of 86.1 set by Scooter McLean's outfit in '58. In two games, the opponents' rating is 97.1.
One wonders if McCarthy even bothered to examine just how inept the Packers' pass defense was two years ago before hiring Schottenheimer from among the many qualified coaches he could have selected.
The No. 25 ranking in passing yards allowed, worst in Green Bay since the merger in 1970. The 37 touchdown passes in 17 games, another club record. The team record for fewest interceptions with eight. The amazingly high totals of 26 penalties and 15 touchdown passes charged to the starting cornerbacks, Harris and Carroll. And the 7 1/2 touchdown passes and 19 plays of 20 yards or more, both astonishingly horrid numbers, allowed by the starting safeties, Darren Sharper and Mark Roman.
From that season, McCarthy pretty much knew only two players, Harris and Carroll, would be returning this year. He also had decided to rehire Lionel Washington, who was assisting with the defensive backs since 1999.
It is known that McCarthy interviewed 63-year-old Larry Marmie, who was out as defensive coordinator in St. Louis, for the secondary job. It isn't known if he interviewed anybody else.
Schottenheimer, who will turn 57 next Sunday, had been with Marmie in St. Louis as secondary coach. Mike Sherman, an old friend dating to their days on staff at Tulane, fired Schottenheimer shortly after the '04 season.
The relationship between McCarthy and Schottenheimer went back to 1993, when Marty Schottenheimer gave McCarthy his first job in the NFL. McCarthy and Kurt Schottenheimer worked side-by-side for six years in Kansas City.
We'll never know for sure if McCarthy hired Schottenheimer as a favor to Marty Schottenheimer or to give a friend a job. But based on what happened in Green Bay in '04 and in St. Louis in '05, there was little reason to bring him back.
Look at '04, when not one player in the secondary had a good year and most players had brutal years. Sharper easily had his worst season since '99. Roman was horrendous. The draft choices, Carroll and Joey Thomas, brawled outside a meeting room and flopped on the field.
Yes, the Rams' secondary was hit hard by injury last year. But Schottenheimer also played a major role in what a long-time observer called the team's worst tackling secondary since the move to St. Louis in 1995.
The Rams' personnel department had little regard for Schottenheimer's ability as an evaluator, but coach Mike Martz had final say. When the Rams signed safety Michael Hawthorne in April and traded for cornerback Chris Johnson in September, Martz said he relied heavily on Schottenheimer's recommendations based on having coached them.
Hawthorne, according to one member of the Rams' staff, "couldn't play a lick" and was cut shortly after starting the first five games. Johnson played a lot on passing downs and proved worthless, just as he had been in Green Bay.
Several sources said Schottenheimer also played an instrumental role in the Packers' selection of Thomas in the third round. A bust, Thomas currently is on the street.
Laid-back, passive style
Some people who have played for or worked with Schottenheimer describe his style of coaching as laid-back and passive. "He's just not a DB coach," one source said. "You can tell he's not really a DB guy. The good ones are more passionate and direct."
It's interesting that when Marty Schottenheimer gave his brother his first NFL job it was as a special-teams coach, a position that he held for eight years. His only NFL experience as a secondary coach before coming to Green Bay was four years in Kansas City. His final three years at the collegiate level were spent coaching linebackers.
Of course, successful assistants come from all backgrounds. But it's also interesting that possibly the Packers' most impressive position coach, wide receivers coach Jimmy Robinson, not only played wide receiver in the NFL for six years but also has done nothing but coach NFL wide receivers for 17 years.
McCarthy could have retained Joe Baker, the Packers' secondary coach in '05, with whom he had coached with in New Orleans from 2000-'04, but decided against it. Under Baker, who now is quality control coach in St. Louis, Harris and Carroll, even Roman, displayed improvement. And Collins, regarded as a mental risk by some teams, had remarkably few blown assignments and made the all-rookie team.
Secondary coaches have two primary functions. To me, the most important is the day-to-day contact with players involving technique, attitude and standards, both for the present and future. Less important is the ability to contribute in a meaningful way to the scheme and game plan.
Maybe McCarthy hired Schottenheimer for his wisdom with X's and O's. By most definitions, he isn't what one would classify as a dynamic coach on the practice field.
The only returning defensive back that showed improvement from last year would be safety Marviel Underwood, although the body of work was just two weeks before he needed reconstructive knee surgery.
One of the major disappointments was Mike Hawkins. As a rookie, he flashed enough to think he might eventually become a starter. As a second-year player, he almost refused to play hurt and the Packers gave up on him.
Some players regressing
Schottenheimer went to bat for Carroll again this summer, but Carroll's new-found maturity was just a figment of someone's imagination. It's entirely possibly no coach can ever reach him, but for now Carroll seems to have regressed to his rookie level.
Some players make quantum jumps in their second season but, for now at least, Collins isn't any better and might be worse. Billed by officials in Seattle as a great communicator, Manuel seems to have done more agitating than leading.
Neither of the two veterans, Harris nor Woodson, has played to his previous standards. Woodson, according to one scout, "kind of just drifts. He doesn't play with a motor, man. What is he doing? Absolutely nothing."
During his one season under Schottenheimer, Sharper praised the coach for his willingness to listen to veteran players and adapting, if necessary. In an interview at midweek, he called Schottenheimer "a fine coach who did an all right job in 2004 getting the guys prepared and studying. I love him to death." He added: "Schottenheimer might be in the learning process also, learning the defensive scheme from the new coordinator. That could be part of it also."
Whatever the case, the secondary isn't playing as well as it did even last season despite the costly signings of Woodson and Manuel. And anyone who paid attention to the dynamics of that sorry secondary two years ago should have seen this coming.
---
Well said. He's a joke of a DB coach. I say just fire him now. Give the job to Lionel Washington.
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