KGB

[jack's smirking revenge]

I don't see Freeney hitting the market

So the Colts are going to tie up 75% of their cap money in 3-4 players? The salary cap might cushion that blow, but the Colts are already topheavy.

I can't find a report on the Colts' salary cap situation, so I can't answer your question. My recollection is that the majority of that money is tied up in Manning, Wayne and Harrison. They need to lock up some players for the future on defense as well.

I don't know about you, but other than June, Freeney is the only player that I'd lock up long-term on that defense. I think it will be a priority for them in the off-season.

I could be wrong, but who knows...

tyler

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/teamSalary?categoryId=67048

Here are the 2006 salaries, but not the cap hits.

Thanks for the link! Interesting how much $$$ they've got tied up in their offense and offensive line.

tyler

[RashanGary]

KGB's contract isn't so bad. I thing retailguy is right there.

It's his play that is the problem. He only had 8 sacks last year adn I would be surprised if he gets that many this year based in his obviously declining first step.

I think that explosive burst that RB's and pass rushers need is the first NFL skill to go. I know KGB is will only be 30 next year, but his only marketable skill has declined to a point where he is no longer efffective at the one thing he did well.

If he gets 5 sacks and looks like he has thus far in the season, I think he will need to be replaced.

He can't play the run and it looks like he's not very good at the pass anymore either. 3 games isn't everything, but he looks ot have lost that burst to me.

[Partial]

KGB's contract isn't so bad. I thing retailguy is right there.

It's his play that is the problem. He only had 8 sacks last year adn I would be surprised if he gets that many this year based in his obviously declining first step.

I think that explosive burst that RB's and pass rushers need is the first NFL skill to go. I know KGB is will only be 30 next year, but his only marketable skill has declined to a point where he is no longer efffective at the one thing he did well.

If he gets 5 sacks and looks like he has thus far in the season, I think he will need to be replaced.

He can't play the run and it looks like he's not very good at the pass anymore either. 3 games isn't everything, but he looks ot have lost that burst to me.

I have yet to see this first step decline that you mention. I would think we would have heard about it all summer for Cleft Crusty, but instead he continued to rave about how solid of a camp he had and how good of a player he is.

[KYPack]

If Freeney is that good why are we assuming that he's gonna actually hit free agency. Isn't it more likely that with the second year of staggered increases in the salary cap that he will be resigned? Unless, of course, the Colts decide he's old and no longer worth the money, but I don't know that I see that happening.

Simple Zig, because they WANT him. Therefore he'll be available....


I can't see it happening though, he'll get franchised, and sign an 8 year deal that'll really be about 4 or 5.

KY - I'm not trying to engage in a KGB lovefest. If it came across that way, I was not very clear.

I just don't see the contract in the same light you do. There are so many needs elsewhere, I can't see Thompson spending a 1st round pick, and probably not a 2nd round pick on a DE. KGB's salary is not that bloated for another year, however, that assumes that his sack totals don't drop, just as packersnews.com claimed.

Finally, I'm disappointed you don't want to look at the numbers. I'm as disappointed in his production and his run stuffing abilities as you are, but, in my opinion, his contract numbers don't back up that perspective. Today, he's got a relatively pedestrian cap charge compared to the rest of the league DE's (that are not either on their rookie contract or in the first couple of years of a new deal).

If he gets canned, it's for two reasons, 1st he's a sherman guy, and 2nd they've got somebody else that I just don't see on the roster right now. If these two don't happen, he'll be here and probably finish out the remaining two years of that contract.

That's fine and reasonable to boot.

The reason I don't wanna compare with other DE's is they will all be 3 down guys. Kabeer ain't a 3 down DE anymore. He's a situation sub that is gonna get 5 mil next year. That ya can't find in the league. I think he'll get picked up and make a mil to 1.5 for somebody next year.

Man I was amazed at the Colt data. WTF did Freeny do to get such a low contract #? Izzat his his rookie deal?

How about Ryan Diem making 7 mil per?
He must have to dress and shower somewhere else so he don't get shanked coming out of the shower!

[Partial]

Zooly,

That thing has salaries but not cap numbers. They're just a hair below it do to bonuses and whatnot. Payton is making about 10 a year. Marvin is making about 8 a year. Simon is making about 5-6 mil a year. Tarik Glenn is making about 5 mil a year. Mathis is making about 5 mil a year. Stokely is getting prolly 3.5. Wayne is getting about 6. Diem is getting 7. Rhodes, Saturday, Jackson are getting about 3.

As you can see, they have a lot of big salaries with large bonuses. Tack on an extra 10-12 mil a year for Freeney, and they will be in trouble.

Essentially, the point I am saying is that site is telling about half the story.

[mmmdk]

I think KGB will be great when we sign Freeney next offseason...

think about it...TT wants to be Wolf reincarnate...Wolf signed a STUD DE...Freeney is available next year and we have cap room...

Oh I'd like Freeney to be a Packer but we'd have to overpay him to go to Green Bay. It could be worth it.

[mmmdk]

I think that for the money he makes, we could find someone who is at least as ineffective as he is. I absolutely hate Hunter and the fact he made the team says we suck in a nutshell. But I would rather have him trying to ineffectively speed rush while being destroyed on running plays for 3.5 million less than KGB.

You know him (Hunter)? The guy kicked ass in college (div.II). I think he's a super project to have on the team. If he doesn't work then so what!? Have you all forgotten...we're rebuilding...sure Packers beat the Lions. Say that again: THE LIONS The fact that Hunter is a cheap rookie doesn't mean he's without talent. Anyways, KGB will probably not be a Packer next year.

[Zool]

Zooly,

That thing has salaries but not cap numbers. They're just a hair below it do to bonuses and whatnot. Payton is making about 10 a year. Marvin is making about 8 a year. Simon is making about 5-6 mil a year. Tarik Glenn is making about 5 mil a year. Mathis is making about 5 mil a year. Stokely is getting prolly 3.5. Wayne is getting about 6. Diem is getting 7. Rhodes, Saturday, Jackson are getting about 3.

As you can see, they have a lot of big salaries with large bonuses. Tack on an extra 10-12 mil a year for Freeney, and they will be in trouble.

Essentially, the point I am saying is that site is telling about half the story.

Partial...I just spotted this post of yours. I actually wrote this...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/teamSalary?categoryId=67048

Here are the 2006 salaries, but not the cap hits.

I couldnt find the cap #'s anywhere for the Colts.

[Partial]

Zooly,

That thing has salaries but not cap numbers. They're just a hair below it do to bonuses and whatnot. Payton is making about 10 a year. Marvin is making about 8 a year. Simon is making about 5-6 mil a year. Tarik Glenn is making about 5 mil a year. Mathis is making about 5 mil a year. Stokely is getting prolly 3.5. Wayne is getting about 6. Diem is getting 7. Rhodes, Saturday, Jackson are getting about 3.

As you can see, they have a lot of big salaries with large bonuses. Tack on an extra 10-12 mil a year for Freeney, and they will be in trouble.

Essentially, the point I am saying is that site is telling about half the story.

Partial...I just spotted this post of yours. I actually wrote this...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/teamSalary?categoryId=67048

Here are the 2006 salaries, but not the cap hits.

I couldnt find the cap #'s anywhere for the Colts.

Oh I missed that, my bad!

[SkinBasket]

The fact that Hunter is a cheap rookie doesn't mean he's without talent. Anyways, KGB will probably not be a Packer next year.

No. The fact he doesn't have any talent means he's without talent. Hunter was one of the guys that got a ton of playing time in the preseason. What he demonstrated is that he is a less effective version of KGB. He has one "move," the outside rush, which often left his side of the line wide open for the QB to step up into or the RB to run to unchallenged. It would have been fine if he had created some pressure, but he didn't. Against the run, he was usually out of position due to his reliance on running ten to fifteen yards deep into the backfield (even then he couldn't get around the blocker but once or twice), or when he did try to simply hold the corner, he wuold get mauled by the 2nd - 4th string OL.

Hunter has speed. That is all he has. Unless there are secret plans to convert him to a pass rushing specialist from the LB position, he's never going to move beyond the "project" stage.

[mmmdk]

The fact that Hunter is a cheap rookie doesn't mean he's without talent. Anyways, KGB will probably not be a Packer next year.

No. The fact he doesn't have any talent means he's without talent. Hunter was one of the guys that got a ton of playing time in the preseason. What he demonstrated is that he is a less effective version of KGB. He has one "move," the outside rush, which often left his side of the line wide open for the QB to step up into or the RB to run to unchallenged. It would have been fine if he had created some pressure, but he didn't. Against the run, he was usually out of position due to his reliance on running ten to fifteen yards deep into the backfield (even then he couldn't get around the blocker but once or twice), or when he did try to simply hold the corner, he wuold get mauled by the 2nd - 4th string OL.

Hunter has speed. That is all he has. Unless there are secret plans to convert him to a pass rushing specialist from the LB position, he's never going to move beyond the "project" stage.

You are wise beyond words Still, your last comment about Hunter being a pass rushing specialist from the LB position might have some merit. Tracey White was released (not that Hunter & White's play resembles in any way) and Hunter could be converted to a LB. Ok, so I actually drank a little kool-aid on Hunter, I just like what little I saw from pre-season plus words out of camp. Well, I sipped some kool-aid but I still believe a 6-10 season is going to be tough to accomplish but it beats being a grumpy & creepy rat

[SkinBasket]

You are wise beyond words

Don't get all pissy because I explained in detail why Hunter is a below average position player when you assumed I simply thought he was a low budget rookie.

Ok, so I actually drank a little kool-aid on Hunter, I just like what little I saw from pre-season plus words out of camp. Well, I sipped some kool-aid but I still believe a 6-10 season is going to be tough to accomplish but it beats being a grumpy & creepy rat

I don't get why so many people have a boner about this guy, but you aren't alone. I guess a lot of people were moved by the JS "oprah" piece on the guy. I was moved in a different direction when I watched him all preseason and he sucked.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I didn't see much out of Hunter to get excited about.

But I'm prejudiced against tweeners.

[retailguy]

Just found this on profootballweekly whispers section:

DLE Aaron Kampman is among the league leaders in sacks this year after signing a lucrative long-term deal this offseason, but we hear that he still benefits from the double-teams that teammate Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila commands. In fact, two of Kampman’s sacks against the Saints came against a tight end, and while he’s a cagey and intelligent player, we’re told he doesn’t possess the speed or athleticism to contend with double-teams if he’s game-planned against.


I bring this up because of the KGB part about him being double teamed. If KGB can command a double team and leave a TE on Kampman that's good for the overall defense.... and was very good for Kampman in terms of his new contract.

Basically it's the point I was trying to make earlier in the week. I'd pat myself on the back, but am afraid I'd break my arm...

Not saying it is "worth" the packers paying 5mil a year, thats not the point, however, DC's seem to value KGB more than some of the guys in this forum, perhaps even including me.

[KYPack]

Just found this on profootballweekly whispers section:

DLE Aaron Kampman is among the league leaders in sacks this year after signing a lucrative long-term deal this offseason, but we hear that he still benefits from the double-teams that teammate Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila commands. In fact, two of Kampman’s sacks against the Saints came against a tight end, and while he’s a cagey and intelligent player, we’re told he doesn’t possess the speed or athleticism to contend with double-teams if he’s game-planned against.


I bring this up because of the KGB part about him being double teamed. If KGB can command a double team and leave a TE on Kampman that's good for the overall defense.... and was very good for Kampman in terms of his new contract.

Basically it's the point I was trying to make earlier in the week. I'd pat myself on the back, but am afraid I'd break my arm...

Not saying it is "worth" the packers paying 5mil a year, thats not the point, however, DC's seem to value KGB more than some of the guys in this forum, perhaps even including me.

Hold on Kool-aid kid.

I haven't seen KGB in any double teams this season.

i just reviewd a couple games on tape and meant to post that Kabeer's play is better in spots than i noticed before, but he not playing at a level than would warrant a double team.

Don't quote these rags, watch the tape & point out the plays.

I repeat my earlie view. He's not a 3 down DE and his play doesn't merit his salary level. Cut KGB and spend 6 million per on a 3 down DE that can stuff the run and rush the QB.