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  • Bob Sanders

    There's a lot of truth in this article by Havel. Right now, that seems unfortunate for McCarthy. I hope they can right this ship, and we don't have to sit through another 2004 like defensive season.

    McCarthy's future hinges on Sanders' success
    By Chris Havel

    Mike McCarthy's most important decision of his National Football League coaching career occurred months ago.

    When the Green Bay Packers' coach named Bob Sanders his defensive coordinator on Jan. 21, McCarthy placed his future to a great degree in the hands of a man he had known for several weeks.

    McCarthy's instincts may be proven correct. He cited several reasons for selecting Sanders. He appreciated Sanders' candor, admired his work ethic and respected his pedigree.

    Sanders, 52, a Jim Bates disciple, brought continuity. The Packers were working on their fourth defensive coordinator in five years, and McCarthy valued Sanders' ability to build upon Bates' scheme.

    McCarthy's reasoning seemed logical.

    In 2005, Bates inherited a patchwork defense with few legitimate playmakers, and somehow elevated it from 25th in yards allowed to seventh overall and first against the pass. Those rankings were misleading in that opposing teams typically grabbed early leads and milked the clock by running the ball. Rarely did opponents have to pass to overcome a deficit.

    Nevertheless, Bates wiped clean Bob Slowik's fingerprints and forged ahead with one gutsy performance after another.

    In a sense, Sanders was hired to pick up where Bates left off. Ted Thompson, the Packers' general manager, signed defensive tackle Ryan Pickett, cornerback Charles Woodson and safety Marquand Manuel in free agency. He re-signed defensive end Aaron Kampman, and spent the fifth pick in the draft to acquire linebacker A.J. Hawk.

    Through three games, the new defensive coordinator and the influx of talent have produced the NFL's 31st-ranked unit. The pass rush has been inconsistent, the run defense spotty and the pass defense unacceptable.

    The Packers' defense has made Chicago's Rex Grossman, New Orleans' Drew Brees and Detroit's Jon Kitna look like Sid Luckman, Archie Manning and Bobby Layne.

    If the trend continues, Philadelphia's Donovan McNabb is going to morph into an unstoppable, freakish combination of Norm Van Brocklin and Randall Cunningham come Monday night's Packers-Eagles game.

    Where are Mike Boryla and Joe Pisarcik when you need them? For that matter, where is a Packers safety when you need one?

    The better question: Will Sanders correct the mistakes, improve the communication and get the defense on track?

    McCarthy, like Mike Holmgren before him, had better hope so. McCarthy is an offensive-minded coach. Ditto for Holmgren. The difference is Holmgren had Ray Rhodes, and then Fritz Shurmur, to coordinate his defenses in Green Bay.

    When Shurmur died in summer 1999, Holmgren suffered personally and professionally. The Seahawks went 9-7, 6-10, 9-7 and 7-9 under one of the NFL's top head coaches before finding postseason success.

    If a coach as renowned as Holmgren struggled without his right-hand man, what is McCarthy to do if Sanders isn't the right man for the job?

    Kurt Schottenheimer, the Packers' defensive backs coach, has drawn fan and media criticism in his second go-round here. Certainly, he is responsible for the pass defense's substandard play.

    Ultimately, the onus falls on Sanders. If he finds a way to tighten up a sievelike defense the Packers' future — and McCarthy's — looks solid. If not, McCarthy wouldn't be the first NFL coach to be doomed before he started.
    "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

  • #2
    Based on the attitude that M3 isn't afraid to bench his players if they aren't playing up to par, I would have to think that he wouldn't hesitate to tell Sander & Schottenheimer to take a hike after the season if this kind of performance keeps up.

    Our defense should be better than last year with all the upgrades to the D. This is definitely the fault of coaching. Granted, it would help our D if we could actually have a DC that lasts more than one season around here... Sander is not one I'd like to see stick around at this point.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by GBRulz
      Based on the attitude that M3 isn't afraid to bench his players if they aren't playing up to par, I would have to think that he wouldn't hesitate to tell Sander & Schottenheimer to take a hike after the season if this kind of performance keeps up.

      Our defense should be better than last year with all the upgrades to the D. This is definitely the fault of coaching. Granted, it would help our D if we could actually have a DC that lasts more than one season around here... Sander is not one I'd like to see stick around at this point.
      All of our new coaching staff is suspect. I understand we need to give them time to get their act together but I would hate to see another "stellar" year like last year. And with Philly coming up on Monday night we face an imposing offense. Somehow we need to pull this one together or it could be a long evening.

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      • #4
        They are playing like ass! time to put up or shut up!!

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        • #5
          Given that Jim Bates was Bob Sanders' mentor, I wonder if the two have consulted over what is taking place. I have not heard Bates' name come up except in relation to the HC position.

          Anyone heard anything about the two talking?

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          • #6
            Sanders aint no Bates, but Schittenheimer was M3's idea IIRC. That to my mind was the single dumbest thing M3 did.

            Sanders' hiring, to me, was the single most logical decision he made. I still maintain I would have done that myself in that situation.

            I would oust Schittenheimer after the Philly game if McNabb rips us a new one in the secondary. I would already have a plan "B" for a replacemet secondray coaching staff ready to rock Tuesday morning if we get sieved again. I would not even wait to evaluate the film.

            I would call in Kurt and say "Kurt, I know you were the guy that gave me my first coaching job. I thank you for that. But, Kurt, at this rate, you will be the guy that costs me my first HC job. Sorry, Kurt, can't let that happen. Bye Kurt".

            That signal to the players is also one that M3 not only holds them accountable, but also himself and his coaches. If TT can cut his mistakes quickly and bloddlessly, so can M3.

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            • #7
              Everybody, except the most deranged Kool-Aid addict, sees that the defense is an unmitigated disaster.

              Congress should pass legislation preventing Schottenheimer from ever coaching again - on any level. But if we as Monday morning GM's can see that, what does that say about Sanders, McCarthy, and TT???

              The defense has regressed to nearly Slowik depths of dysfunction... Hopefully Sanders will be out of a job 0.000000001 seconds after the Packers get their asses waxed by the Bears in the season finale.
              wist

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by wist43
                Hopefully Sanders will be out of a job 0.000000001 seconds after the Packers get their asses waxed by the Bears in the season finale.
                Why wait till then? This Tuesday seems like a great time....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by wist43
                  Everybody, except the most deranged Kool-Aid addict, sees that the defense is an unmitigated disaster.

                  Congress should pass legislation preventing Schottenheimer from ever coaching again - on any level. But if we as Monday morning GM's can see that, what does that say about Sanders, McCarthy, and TT???

                  The defense has regressed to nearly Slowik depths of dysfunction... Hopefully Sanders will be out of a job 0.000000001 seconds after the Packers get their asses waxed by the Bears in the season finale.
                  LMFAO...

                  I'm holding out hope that he adjusts and gets it fixed. He may have tried to complicate things and separate himself from Bates and now he has to adjust and go back to the basics. YOu never know by 3 games, but I agree it sure doesn't look good right now.

                  If they play like this all season, it won't just be Kurt S. who gets canned. Sanders will be with him in the unemployment line.
                  Formerly known as JustinHarrell.

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                  • #10
                    question..do packers hafta to wait until the end of season to fire a coach?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SD GB fan
                      question..do packers hafta to wait until the end of season to fire a coach?
                      No, but it would be HIGHLY unlikely that they would fire first year coaches during the season. What kind of message does that send to coaches they would try to attract? We may not even give you a year to prove yourself.
                      "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
                        Originally posted by SD GB fan
                        question..do packers hafta to wait until the end of season to fire a coach?
                        No, but it would be HIGHLY unlikely that they would fire first year coaches during the season. What kind of message does that send to coaches they would try to attract? We may not even give you a year to prove yourself.
                        Agreed. It's called a coaching fraternity for a reason. Like Harvey said, recruiting other quality assistants becomes harder if they feel that they are under the gun to excel immediately or have to leave town.

                        Also, MM is a rookie head coach. He's can't axe coaches during the season without damaging his own reputation. Like everyone else, he'll need to interview for another NFL job in the future. These guys make enemies as easily as they make friends. He won't play megalomaniac and start firing people to make himself look good at the risk of ruining his reputation and future employment.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wist43
                          Everybody, except the most deranged Kool-Aid addict, sees that the defense is an unmitigated disaster.

                          Congress should pass legislation preventing Schottenheimer from ever coaching again - on any level. But if we as Monday morning GM's can see that, what does that say about Sanders, McCarthy, and TT???

                          The defense has regressed to nearly Slowik depths of dysfunction... Hopefully Sanders will be out of a job 0.000000001 seconds after the Packers get their asses waxed by the Bears in the season finale.
                          Wist, do you drive your car by always looking only in the rear view mirror? You're going to crash by doing that...

                          Having VISION entails using FORESIGHT.

                          It doesn't take a "deranged kool-aid addiction" to see that this defense has been hurt by being unprepared and not communicating like they should. These deficiencies will be addressed with experience working together and a lot of film time. Their problems are not founded in a lack of talent.

                          Some people that are clueless are built to stay that way, but here's a clue for you. Prove me wrong and take it...

                          Constantly looking at the past is no way to go through life. Use some imagination and envision the future. It's a lot of fun when you try. And the more you try it, the better you'll get at it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by vince
                            Originally posted by wist43
                            Everybody, except the most deranged Kool-Aid addict, sees that the defense is an unmitigated disaster.

                            Congress should pass legislation preventing Schottenheimer from ever coaching again - on any level. But if we as Monday morning GM's can see that, what does that say about Sanders, McCarthy, and TT???

                            The defense has regressed to nearly Slowik depths of dysfunction... Hopefully Sanders will be out of a job 0.000000001 seconds after the Packers get their asses waxed by the Bears in the season finale.
                            Wist, do you drive your car by always looking only in the rear view mirror? You're going to crash by doing that...

                            Having VISION entails using FORESIGHT.

                            It doesn't take a "deranged kool-aid addiction" to see that this defense has been hurt by being unprepared and not communicating like they should. These deficiencies will be addressed with experience working together and a lot of film time. Their problems are not founded in a lack of talent.

                            Some people that are clueless are built to stay that way, but here's a clue for you. Prove me wrong and take it...

                            Constantly looking at the past is no way to go through life. Use some imagination and envision the future. It's a lot of fun when you try. And the more you try it, the better you'll get at it.
                            Vince, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here - other than an odd attempt to give me a driving lesson... you been hittin the hooch???

                            Although I can say this about having a vision of the future...

                            25 years ago, I woke up on a buddies couch after a hard night of partying... I went to the fridge and began to guzzle what I thought was a jug of water - turned out to be the hottest moonshine I've ever had the misfortune of pouring down my gullet - I saw the future that morning, but passed back out, and the clouds reappeared. Been lookin in the "rear view mirror" ever since, trying to reconnect to that elusive vision all those years ago... Alas, it is a sad existence.
                            wist

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wist43
                              Originally posted by vince
                              Originally posted by wist43
                              Everybody, except the most deranged Kool-Aid addict, sees that the defense is an unmitigated disaster.

                              Congress should pass legislation preventing Schottenheimer from ever coaching again - on any level. But if we as Monday morning GM's can see that, what does that say about Sanders, McCarthy, and TT???

                              The defense has regressed to nearly Slowik depths of dysfunction... Hopefully Sanders will be out of a job 0.000000001 seconds after the Packers get their asses waxed by the Bears in the season finale.
                              Wist, do you drive your car by always looking only in the rear view mirror? You're going to crash by doing that...

                              Having VISION entails using FORESIGHT.

                              It doesn't take a "deranged kool-aid addiction" to see that this defense has been hurt by being unprepared and not communicating like they should. These deficiencies will be addressed with experience working together and a lot of film time. Their problems are not founded in a lack of talent.

                              Some people that are clueless are built to stay that way, but here's a clue for you. Prove me wrong and take it...

                              Constantly looking at the past is no way to go through life. Use some imagination and envision the future. It's a lot of fun when you try. And the more you try it, the better you'll get at it.
                              Vince, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here - other than an odd attempt to give me a driving lesson... you been hittin the hooch???

                              Although I can say this about having a vision of the future...

                              25 years ago, I woke up on a buddies couch after a hard night of partying... I went to the fridge and began to guzzle what I thought was a jug of water - turned out to be the hottest moonshine I've ever had the misfortune of pouring down my gullet - I saw the future that morning, but passed back out, and the clouds reappeared. Been lookin in the "rear view mirror" ever since, trying to reconnect to that elusive vision all those years ago... Alas, it is a sad existence.
                              Wist, I'm just trying to say that what has been so far this year (a pass defense that has not been effective) doesn't mean that they will suck all year. Using the past as the only indicator of the future is what people who lack the insight to analyze a situation for what it really is do.

                              And the people who use their knowledge and experience to analyze a situation and accurately predict changes that ultimately occur eat those who lack the capacity to do so for lunch... in business, in life, and on this board.

                              To predict that this defense will improve is not evidence of a "deranged kool-aid addiction" as you indicate. It's simply looking at the current and past, and using experience and knowledge about what's really happening to make predictions about the future.

                              It may not happen this week, as the best offense in the league can make defenses with far more experience in working together than the Packers currently possess look bad, but this defense will get better in time. Bank on it.

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