SCOUTS NOTEBOOK ON NICK COLLINS by PFW

[Harlan Huckleby]

Patler, you are being awfully generous to Manuel, he has looked particularly bad.

They have two very experienced corner backs, I'm not sure they need another grey beard back there, if that is indeed Manuel's role.

[Patler]

Patler, you are being awfully generous to Manuel, he has looked particularly bad.

They have two very experienced corner backs, I'm not sure they need another grey beard back there, if that is indeed Manuel's role.

And on some of the plays that Manual has looked the worst, it was screwups in front of him that caused it. Harries admitted it was his coverage error against the Bears. Poppinga fails to force receivers toward the safeties. Carroll releases a WR two steps too soon. Ultimately, all of these make Collins and Manual look bad, being a step or two away from making the play. In reallity, many are caused in front of the safeties by failures of other players.

[Patler]

Patler, you are being awfully generous to Manuel, he has looked particularly bad.

Naw, no worse than Collins.
Manual has been good in run support.

It's easy to criticize the safeties, because their failures are usually out in the open, and if caused by a corner or LB screwing up, the responsible player is often no where to be seen. It only looks like the safeties fault at the end of the play. In reallity, often he is covering up for someone else.

[mraynrand]

Can I just repeat: Woodson is not, nor ever shall be, a decent safety. The guy doesn't like contact and doesn't tackle all that well.

If bringing in Manuel was supposed to generate that needed leadership and 'coach of the backfield' aspect, it failed miserably - so far. How many times do we have to see defensive backs looking at each other wondering where the help went?

[Patler]

Can I just repeat: Woodson is not, nor ever shall be, a decent safety. The guy doesn't like contact and doesn't tackle all that well.

If bringing in Manuel was supposed to generate that needed leadership and 'coach of the backfield' aspect, it failed miserably - so far. How many times do we have to see defensive backs looking at each other wondering where the help went?

I disagree, Woodson has always been a good and willing tackler. He had a reputation for it.

Some of the problem with the DBs has been lack of doing things corectly, not staying with the receiver long enough, not forcing the receiver toward the sidelines or toward the coverage support. In short, letting the receiver do what the receiver wants to, rather than forcing the receiver. That has nothing to do with Manuals calls or leadership. It may have more to do with the training and repetitions in practice, especially with virtually an entirely new backfield, with only Harris and Collins in the same positions as last year.

Calls can be correct and performace inadequate.

[mraynrand]

I disagree, Woodson has always been a good and willing tackler. He had a reputation for it.

I think he's looked like a wuss so far this season. And I'd say that his biggest problem (and the reason the Packers aren't getting a lot out of him so far) is that most of his skill assessment at this point is based on reputation, and not production.

[mraynrand]

BTW,

Starting with the original thread topic - I think Collins is pretty good. One reason Collins, and Manuel at times may look worse than they actually are is that they are spying around, thinking they need to help others (Pop for example) instead of taking care of their primary coverage responsibilities. Even Woodson, who looks like he can still cover pretty well, might look a lot better once the overall performance improves, confidence level improves and guys can concentrate on their first responsibilities. If guys just play a little better individually against Philly, it could be a watershed moment for the season. If they play a little worse, it could destroy their confidence for a long time.

[ahaha]

Can I just repeat: Woodson is not, nor ever shall be, a decent safety. The guy doesn't like contact and doesn't tackle all that well.

When Woodson was being courted by the Packers there were numerous reports and scout opinions that said Woodson should be and would be a good safety. That's what Tampa wanted him for. We were the only team interested in paying him big bucks to play corner. I probably haven't anylized Woodson's Packer performance as closely as you, but I haven't seen him shying away from tackling or whiffing on any easy tackles. I would love to have the Packers move him to safety next year, with the hopes we draft a good corner and Blackmon shows us something to get excited about.

[Patler]

I don't think Woodson has looked worse than Harris, and he has made some nice tackles. Manual hasn' been appreciably worse than Collins.

This is simply a defensive backfield that is not working well togther. It is not a well-choreographed unit, so on any one play any one individual player might look bad. In short, it looks exactly like 2004, with one player out of position, or not doing exactly what he should. It didn't improve in 2004, and actually may have gotten worse as the season went on. I'm not expecting anything different this season, and I expect to see Schottenheimer sent packing, again, in the off-season.

[mraynrand]

I expect to see Schottenheimer sent packing, again, in the off-season.

After the Williams TD in Detroit, 3-4 guys from the defensive coaching staff were standing around looking at pictures of the play(s) (I think Shottenheimer was in the group, but he was sheilded from my view), and it looked like they didn't have a damn clue what was going on - just arguing with each other. I watched to see if they would then go talk to ANYONE in the secondary and NEVER did before the Packer D took the field on the next Detroit possession. Maybe they corrected some things at half, but it looked like they were really confused, and they weren't talking to the guys that were screwing up on the field. WTF?

[Guiness]

Some of the problem with the DBs has been lack of doing things corectly, not staying with the receiver long enough, not forcing the receiver toward the sidelines or toward the coverage support. In short, letting the receiver do what the receiver wants to, rather than forcing the receiver. That has nothing to do with Manuals calls or leadership. It may have more to do with the training and repetitions in practice, especially with virtually an entirely new backfield, with only Harris and Collins in the same positions as last year.

Calls can be correct and performace inadequate.

You're right Patler, and that's where we get back to poor coaching. Guys not finishing their assignment, or not knowing it, IMO.

Truth is, this is the NFL. Let a receiver do what he wants, and be at the spot the QB expects him to be at the right time, and ANY NFL QB will hit him in the numbers with a beautiful pass, no problem at all. Make a guy like Losman look All-Pro for a day.