Carroll Released

[Tony Oday]

OR shermy's players sucked...Carrol was terrible everybody saw that. He wasnt getting burned on triple moves he was getting burned by speed. He is a whipped dog that cant keep up with a real WR and even a BAD 3rd stringer burns him like a kleenex. He was terrible and an ass.

Walker wanted out because we werent giving him the respect he thought he deserved. He is a punk. Does he have talent? well hell yeah but he didnt want to play here.

Barnett will be resigned if not well they like Hodge so at least there is a backup plan there.

Woodson should actually have been spelled Law. I think TT needs to check his spell check on his comp.

[Guiness]

I hope you're right Patler, and that (or something similar) was the plan all along. However, it doesn't change my feeling that they should've demoted Carroll, and watched those guys play with real bullets flying a little bit before they cut him loose.

What's Dendy's status? He's on the PS, right?

[Patler]

If you start feeling bad about Carroll being cut, just re-read these to yourselves:

34 - Games played with the Green Bay Packers by cornerback Ahmad Carroll
28 - Games in which Carroll started
33 - Total penalty flags thrown against Carroll
26 - Penalties called for coverage violations such as pass interference, illegal contact and holding
256 - Penalty yards marched off as a result of his 24 infractions that weren't declined or offset by another penalty
11 - Touchdowns Carroll allowed in coverage
3 - Interceptions by Carroll

[gureski]

No great mystery here. The plan has been in place since the off season. Move Carroll out of the starting spot, see if he can contribute at Nickel. They would like to have had a competition in camp between Blcakmon and Carroll, or even Dendy (who they seem to like) and Carroll, but both Blackmon and Dendy were injured. Both are now returning to health and ready to play, and Bush has been around for a month and knows the system. he is now ready to contribute, too..

That's why Carroll was kept around, and why he is gone. Because of injuries, mostly, he was the only alternative. Now, others are ready. As MM said yesterday, this has been disgussed for a long time.

This makes no sense if you consider the fact that injuries happen and the guy you speak most of is coming off an injury. You need depth. If this is a simple issue of other players currently on the team being better then Carroll and those players are banged up and coming off injury then why wouldn't you keep Carroll as insurance in case those players aren't healthy yet or reinjure themselves? Dendy was on the practice squad, wasn't he? If he was better then why wasn't he playing?

Obviously, management felt Carroll was the best they had for the first 4 weeks of the season. Shouldn't you actually wait til a back up proves he's better before cutting the starter?

[MJZiggy]

Can someone please tell me exactly what this quote means?

"We felt it was time to go in another direction," Packers coach Mike McCarthy said. "We wish Ahmad luck, and on a personal level, it may be in his best interest for him to move on to another NFL venue."

Thanks.

It means they had gotten sick and tired of him in GB. He needs a new place and new coaches for a fresh start.

MM also mentioned meeting with his position coaches. Washington is in charge of the nickel package and cornerbacks. he also has been with Carroll since the start. Reading between the lines, he and maybe Schottenheimer gave up on Carroll.

Thanks, Patler, but I was asking specifically about the phrase "NFL venue." If he meant just go to another team, that would be obvious because he was just cut, but it was phrased like it was a piece of advice directed at him. Is he suggesting a change in position? Is he suggesting he go apply as a stadium janitor? The word 'venue' is throwing me off.

[Patler]

I hope you're right Patler, and that (or something similar) was the plan all along. However, it doesn't change my feeling that they should've demoted Carroll, and watched those guys play with real bullets flying a little bit before they cut him loose.

What's Dendy's status? He's on the PS, right?

Yes, Dendy is on PS.

Demoting Carroll might have been fine, depending on his attitude. We see only part of it, and he has grated on many of us with his hotdog attitude in games. As I mentioned above, I think the coaches gave up on him, didn't want to deal with him anymore and figured they would never get through to him anyway.

[Rastak]

If you start feeling bad about Carroll being cut, just re-read these to yourselves:

34 - Games played with the Green Bay Packers by cornerback Ahmad Carroll
28 - Games in which Carroll started
33 - Total penalty flags thrown against Carroll
26 - Penalties called for coverage violations such as pass interference, illegal contact and holding
256 - Penalty yards marched off as a result of his 24 infractions that weren't declined or offset by another penalty
11 - Touchdowns Carroll allowed in coverage
3 - Interceptions by Carroll

I think you missed passes defended (for completness sake)

[KYPack]

Skin, ND and others are right -- this move makes no sense. Demote, maybe, but cut? Anybody think Manuel has been lightin' it up? So why not cut his sorry ass and try moving Carroll over? And what has Pop showed except a white skin, a buzz cut, and a lot of old school attitude? Cut his sorry ass. And KGB -- gone. Now, do you feel better?

People act like every reception is the fault of a DB. That's crap. Receivers all over the league are gaining beaucoup yardage nowadays due to the rules. Catches are going to happen, especially when you don't put up a pass rush and thereby allow receivers time to make double and triple moves.
Stupid, stupid, stupid. I guess we can just forget about playing dime this year. Even nickle will be a stretch. And we better hope those two old men on the corners don't get nicked.

Great post Noodle. That is what all DBack coaches know and understand. They are gonna complete passes, they always do

-You can't stop the perfect pass
-You probably won't stop a good pass

The idea is to defend the average passes and pick all the bad ones.

But we will play nickle and dime. We have to. I have another worry. We have to play Martz and a few other crazies. They will do 5 wides or 4 wides and a "pass back". We'll have to play some cover 7 (7 DB's) Do we even have 7 cover backs?

[gureski]

If you start feeling bad about Carroll being cut, just re-read these to yourselves:

34 - Games played with the Green Bay Packers by cornerback Ahmad Carroll
28 - Games in which Carroll started
33 - Total penalty flags thrown against Carroll
26 - Penalties called for coverage violations such as pass interference, illegal contact and holding
256 - Penalty yards marched off as a result of his 24 infractions that weren't declined or offset by another penalty
11 - Touchdowns Carroll allowed in coverage
3 - Interceptions by Carroll

Again, the issue isn't whether Carroll deserved to be cut. Knee-jerk reaction is to be happy a poor player is gone. The real issue is WHY the team waited til the start of Week 5 to make this decision! Does this make the overall team better or worse to be looking for a replacement in Week 5 compared to during training camp?

There is no way you can look at this and not see indecision and mismanagement by the GM and coach. You don't shop for a #3 CB during Week 5 of the NFL season unless injury or attitude puts you in that spot. These guys screwed up in keeping Carroll and now they're screwing up in cutting him without having anyone ready to take over. All that is set to take over are rookies and flyer players. If that's the game plan.....to take flyers on guys and just take shots in the dark instead of methodically using the cap money they have to assure there are at least average players at every position then this team is in more trouble then we know.

Again, the stats above don't tell us anything we, and management, didn't already know. The question becomes why did they keep him and why didn't they go after another DB to be the #3CB if they felt Carroll was that close to being cut? How much cap money is sitting there as we now look to pick up a #3CB in Week 5?

Again, what kind of plan is this? Keep a guy who shouldn't be on the roster and then cut him when you're depending on him? Cut a FB when the other FB is still injured? The decision making process stinks. They're not doing everything they can to win now. There are things they could do to win now AND build for the future. All i see is a breaking down of the roster without replacing players with capable bodies. It's not like they don't have the cap room to have signed a guy. If they knew Carroll was on the fence then they should've had a better back up plan for a position as important as #3CB.

[Patler]

This makes no sense if you consider the fact that injuries happen and the guy you speak most of is coming off an injury. You need depth. If this is a simple issue of other players currently on the team being better then Carroll and those players are banged up and coming off injury then why wouldn't you keep Carroll as insurance in case those players aren't healthy yet or reinjure themselves? Dendy was on the practice squad, wasn't he? If he was better then why wasn't he playing?

Obviously, management felt Carroll was the best they had for the first 4 weeks of the season. Shouldn't you actually wait til a back up proves he's better before cutting the starter?

After listening to all the complaining about Carrol for two years, I'm amazed at all this handwringing over his release.

For the first four weeks of the season, Carroll was their best option, because:
1. Blackmon was still injured.
2. Bush was new to the system.
3. Dendy was hurt for most of TC.
4. Hawkins' flame burned out.
5. Horton just couldn't get untracked, with injuries and illnesses always seeming to hold him back

Based on what they see in practices and in some game exposure, they obviously feel Bush is now ready for a more prominent role, Blackmon is returning to health and Dendy is again healthy and up to speed.

For whatever reason, Carroll has been quite bad so far this season. Can any of the others really be any worse?

Reading McCarthy's press conference, it seems clear that the Packers realize everyone has gotten the scoop on Carroll. Throw long. Even if he is in position to make a play, he won't. His ball skills are that poor, and not improving. I'm anxious to see Blackmon in those situations. He is bigger and has good hands. Spending last year as a WR demonstrates his ball skills.

[gureski]

I hope you're right Patler, and that (or something similar) was the plan all along. However, it doesn't change my feeling that they should've demoted Carroll, and watched those guys play with real bullets flying a little bit before they cut him loose.

What's Dendy's status? He's on the PS, right?

Yes, Dendy is on PS.

Demoting Carroll might have been fine, depending on his attitude. We see only part of it, and he has grated on many of us with his hotdog attitude in games. As I mentioned above, I think the coaches gave up on him, didn't want to deal with him anymore and figured they would never get through to him anyway.

The biggest story after the Eagles loss was how humble Carroll was in the post-game press conference. He took full responsibility for his actions. The kid was maturing. You could see it and his teammates could see it. The media was writing about it. His attitude wasn't the issue anymore which brings me full circle around again to the question of WHY cut him now? They knew what he had to offer as a DB so why act surprised when he gets penalties and gives up big plays?

They decided to keep hitting the square peg into the round hole. They could've tried a different hole (ie safety or special teams). They didn't and it doesn't make sense.

[SkinBasket]

Demoting Carroll might have been fine, depending on his attitude. We see only part of it, and he has grated on many of us with his hotdog attitude in games. As I mentioned above, I think the coaches gave up on him, didn't want to deal with him anymore and figured they would never get through to him anyway.

Patler, the statement about his attitude is completely untrue. What you see on the field may not have always been palatable, but what makes it any different than what 80% of the players in the NFL do to celebrate average plays?

On the flip side, how many CBs, especially young 1st round picks, would accept a demotion in favor of Joey Thomas and then again to Woodson with nothing more to say than, "My goal is to work harder?" Carroll demonstrated a great attitude off the field given his circumstances.

Hell, one of his goals was to contribute on ST. How many first round busts will you hear that from? I find it hard to believe he would have had any problem being demoted to ST only. And even if he did, that would be the time to cut him, not before.

[Sparkey]

Can someone please tell me exactly what this quote means?

"We felt it was time to go in another direction," Packers coach Mike McCarthy said. "We wish Ahmad luck, and on a personal level, it may be in his best interest for him to move on to another NFL venue."

Thanks.

The actual quote is:

We talk personnel every day pretty much. Meeting with Ted and the personnel department and the coaches, we felt it was time to go in another direction. We're going to give Jarrett Bush and Patrick Dendy an opportunity. We wish Ahmad luck. On a personal level it may be in his best interest as he moves on to another NFL venue.

[/b]

[gureski]

Let's cut through the side crap. Do you agree with this style of management?

Is this the proper way to build a team and win in the NFL?

Do you go into the season, with cap room, and not have players to cover all the key positions on your team?

If they knew Carroll was a guy they may cut then they should have had better replacements available prior to Week 5 of the season. That's the issue here. It's ridiculous to cut your nickel back in Week 5 without having an established replacement ready. All the Packers have waiting to replace Carroll in the key position of Nickel CB are rookies and unproven players. That's indisputable. They're putting the season in the hands of rookies and unproven players and it didn't have to be that way.

That's the issue. Is this a reoccurring trend? The guard situation from last year. The juggling of guards this year. Is this going to be a trademark of the Thompson years? Wolf always had starters ready and always went out to fill holes when they opened up. Thompson doesn't fill holes. He creates them and then sits back and waits to draft to fill all the holes. You can't win like that today. you can build a winner long-term that way but you're cementing yourself into losing for years before you get good. You do have to successfully use free agency to fill holes on your team. If you want to win, you can't depend solely on the draft to fix mistakes and patch holes.

[SkinBasket]

More evidence of the poor level of coaching on the D side of the ball from JSO Notes:

Short shrift
The Packers were overmatched enough against the Eagles that they didn't need to make it any tougher on themselves.

But they did.

Twice they lined up on defense with just 10 men on the field.

On one of them, safety Tyrone Culver was summoned to the sideline and either knew better not to leave or simply followed orders. The result was a wide-open tight end L.J. Smith, who scampered 21 yards to the Packers' 4.

"(There were) problems with the no huddle, which is why a lot of people do that, switch personnel groups," McCarthy said. "Culver went on, which was the appropriate personnel group, but the communication for him to come back off was inaccurate, so that's what he did. We were going to our '47' group and that was a miscommunication there."