This Season is Officially: OVER!

[australianpackerbacker]

...dont you think it would be a good idea to get everything out of these players this year, try and win NOW so that the rookies can grow with the vets...?

IMO, i don't think shelving the vets will do any good for anyone, moslty the head coach.

No, because it must be downright frustrating losing games like we did against NO and STL. And I wouldn't make a horse in pain work a field if the crop had little chance of growing, why would I ask a LT to do it?

If Cliffy needs operating, put him on IR and let him get it done NOW. He aint gonna miss much.

And so were going to let a 31 y.o LT, who does not fit our scheme, come back from two major knee surgeries for the hope that next year he will have something left IF his knees hold up?

"No, because it must be downright frustrating losing games like we did against NO and STL."

What this line is telling me is that basically you want to throw the season away for some draft picks, even if thats not what your coming out and saying. Who would we use to replace clifton? Move Colledge to LT and put Spitz at LG and Moll at RG, and have clifton back them up?

Should we replace Ahman, who is on the downside of his career, with two players that probably will not be a part of the 07 roster?

[Tarlam!]

That must be one hell of a crystal ball you're using. You start out by predicting our LT will be under the knife and never be able to make it in this scheme. Then you say Green is as good as done next year.

Finally, you see the 2 back up RBs being cut next year.

To top this off, you boldly predict that despit us not having a running back next year or a legit LT, we will be a power house in 3-5 years, because of TT's prowess in the draft.

But, you admit to not trusting the ol' crystal ball, because the play calling is inconsistant with good ol' Shermies.

Yup, I follow your logic.

[australianpackerbacker]

You have to be realistic with Clifton in that his knees must be repaired surgically, if you have kept up to date with reports from training camp you would know that his knees have been bum for a while now. Remember last year when Green had that constant knee swelling, and then all of a sudden boom his tendons rip. Have you watched any of the games? Clifton is a warrior and a smart player dont get me wrong, so he will do his best to adjust to the scheme and play through the pain, but he i just not a good fit to what we do.

About the backup RBs, do you honestly feel confident in those two carrying the load next year, say for example, Green does not get another contract from TT? Ill come now as saying that one of them will definetley not be on the roster in opening day next year.

Yes we will be a powerhouse in 3-5 years, you just have to put it into perspective and realise what TT is doing will take 3-5 years, but if he does draft some good players like he did this year and Favre sticks around, i do see a playoff trip next year.

McCarthy might not be used to our talent atm to comfortbaly call plays he believes will work, that or he is very uncreative, again, are you watching the games or are you just arguing with me for the sake of it?

[Tarlam!]

I never argue for the sake of it.

I just disagree with playing people in pain for no benefit, as I have stated repeatedly. You say, there is a benefit; you maintain, I assume, it will benefit the coach and the team.

I fail to understand how seeing Cliffy grimace every time he shifts his weight will benefit the team. I fail to understand how risking a career ending injury to Green is beneficial to our cause, since there is no way on earth we can make the playoffs with THIS team, THIS year.

My plea is to play for the future. You are firmly entrenched in playing for today. You say, again, I assume, this will bring the team closer together but then quickly point out that neither Cliffy or Green will contribute too much in future, and our RBs will most likely not be there.

The entire conversation has revolved around 3 RBs and an LT so far. I hesitate to move to other positions for fear that they will be axed as well.

[australianpackerbacker]

Our difference of opinion is that you think Green and Clifton will still produce next year, end of story. Lets just agree to disagree. Answer this, if we didnt win 4 in a row in shermans 1st season would we have made the playoffs the year after? Would the players have believed in him? Frank Winters was center in '99 i think, not 100%, who was replaced by a young mike flanagan.

[MJZiggy]

Tarlam, I have just skimmed this thread, but on first glance, I believe you're being a bit premature. This is the third year in a row that we've come out 1 and 4 and one of those years we ended up 10 and 6. I believe you play to win EVERY GAME and to do that you put your best players on the field. Do you really think Clifton wants to sit in what could be his final productive season? Do you REALLY think there's someone sitting on the bench that's better than he is right now? We were in that game until the very last play. I don't know why you're giving up now. The possibility of a winning season doesn't go away until you've lost nine games.

[wist43]

Tar, our season was over before it started...

The best we can hope for is to see improvement in the young guys, and begin to build a winning mindset w/in the organization.

Once Favre retires - and I think he has a couple of good years left - it's almost like they have to begin to rebuild - again, again. There's going to be at least a one year learning curve for him, so even if the core of position players begin to improve, you have to expect another step back when Rodgers becomes the starters.

I've been saying for over a year now that 2008 is the best we can hope for to be reasonably competetive again - and that's assuming everything goes swimmingly with each successive draft.

I now think that is a bit optimistic; however, I will cling to the hope of 2008 - for now. I really don't think they can right the ship by then, but ----- call me a "Kool-Aid" drunkard.

[chewy-bacca]

if they are not admitting to rebuilding now, why would they start? The best way to be sure we wont win any games, and that the fans will find something to do other than football on Sundays is to pull the starters. You want empty stands and discontent in the motherland? I sure as hell dont.

How will the staff know what works if they run 11 scrubs all the time? I dont think it would get anything done but throw us farther down the garbage shute.

[vince]

Tar, our season was over before it started...

The best we can hope for is to see improvement in the young guys, and begin to build a winning mindset w/in the organization.

Once Favre retires - and I think he has a couple of good years left - it's almost like they have to begin to rebuild - again, again. There's going to be at least a one year learning curve for him, so even if the core of position players begin to improve, you have to expect another step back when Rodgers becomes the starters.

I've been saying for over a year now that 2008 is the best we can hope for to be reasonably competetive again - and that's assuming everything goes swimmingly with each successive draft.

I now think that is a bit optimistic; however, I will cling to the hope of 2008 - for now. I really don't think they can right the ship by then, but ----- call me a "Kool-Aid" drunkard.

Wist, what does it take for you to call a team "reasonably competitive"? Is a 7-9 season "reasonably competitive?"

Is outplaying a first place team, only to lose on a fumble when the team was on the brink of going ahead in the last minute, "reasonably competitive?"

I'm not sure what you're looking at, but it's 2006, 2 years from 2008, and I'm seeing a team that's "reasonably competitive." Now they just need to develop consistency and learn how to win.

"Reasonably competitive" is not what I want to see though. I want to see a playoff team again, and this team is well on its way to "reasoable competitiveness" now. If they're not "extremely competitive" by next year, I'll be very surprised.

Open up your eyes. You're missing the growth and improvement of your team - the youngest team in the league - right in front of you.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I think every team needs vets, even if the team is rebuilding. If you think about it, what if all your staters were 24 and younger and they all got good at once, how do you plan on keeping 22 starters who are in the prime of there career under contract. The best way to consistently be a great team, as we were in the 90's, is to keep bringing in young talent and when the time is right let go of a old player go for a younger player who is on the rise. Of course to do this you have to you a GM who consistently drafts good players.

[wist43]

Vince,

To me, "reasonably competitive" is 10-6ish... 10-6 will give you a good shot at the playoffs, but you're probably not going to go all the way.

I agree that I see improvement, and I liked this past draft... however, bad teams find ways to lose and then chant mantras - "we'll get it fixed", "we're not pointing fingers"... cliche after cliche. At the end of the day, however, they're still a bad/losing team.

On the bright side - Jennings is the real deal, Hawk will an above average LB in the long run, Wells is coming around, and Spitz is a keeper. Other young guys have potential and upside: Culver, Underwood, Hodge, and, Poppinga.

Counterbalancing those positives are: Favre's retirement, too much money tied up in pedestrian DE's, a far too passive defensive scheme, Nick Barnett in the middle, no "go to" RB, and an overall lack of quality depth.

Favre's retirement is a complete wildcard... How long will he play??? and when he does retire, how long will it take for Rodgers to get up to speed - if he can play at all??? You have to expect the team to take a step backward when Favre retires - so, as I pointed out, you'll be embarking upon another mini-rebuilding w/in the rebuilding just by losing Favre.

No matter how you slice it - they've got an awful long way to go.

[Tarlam!]

Not many gave this team a chance, but I certainly did! And, with an ounce of lady-luck, we would be 3-2 not 1-4! We let NO and STL off the hook.

Now, they may not be high calibre teams, but so what. We almost beat them! From here, though, it gets much more difficult. In fact, it is suicidal to go for it with our strongest team only to be disappointed week after week. The occasional "W" to keep the natives less restless.

BUILD FOR THE FUTURE!!!

That will keep the natives happy. The vets can take the field á la pre-season. Then, let the youngen's play.

Next year, we'll be ready!

[Harlan Huckleby]

Nothing has changed since opening day. It is a rebuilding year, they are trying to idenitify players for future and get better week to week.

[australianpackerbacker]

You're making it sound like the fans would be the only one to benefit from a 7-9 season, and you're still assuming that green and clifton will be the same players next year as they were THREE years ago.

What exactly was the benefit of Green Bay winning its last four games against division rivals four years ago in shermans first year as head coach? wouldnt it have been better for us to go 5-11 and shoot for a top pick? I know they are slightly different situations but football is a mental game as much as anything else, if your players believe they can build on a strong finish than half your work as a head coach is already done.

By you recognising the improved play of the guards, you should also recognise that after around 12 games this football team does have enough talent, it really doesnt bother me if we pick 10th or 3rd because in my mind i believe TT can find good quality players anywhere in the draft, he has an eye for talent that i havent seen in GB, ever. Criticize me all you want but in 3-5 years GB will be a powerhouse, depending on the play of the QB that is.

Here's hoping it happens sooner, a.k.a next year.

How about that one! I must have been the only one on TT's knob, not even JH was hittin it as hard as me. I had the feeling Patler knew what was going on though!

[australianpackerbacker]

That must be one hell of a crystal ball you're using. You start out by predicting our LT will be under the knife and never be able to make it in this scheme. Then you say Green is as good as done next year.

Finally, you see the 2 back up RBs being cut next year.

To top this off, you boldly predict that despit us not having a running back next year or a legit LT, we will be a power house in 3-5 years, because of TT's prowess in the draft.

But, you admit to not trusting the ol' crystal ball, because the play calling is inconsistant with good ol' Shermies.

Yup, I follow your logic.

How do you like that crystal ball now? God damn im good.