THE SPIKE THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED

[Fritz]

To Spike or not To Spike: that is the question.

Spike, I say, Spike. No, wait, I like the fake spike better. That's the kind of sh_t Favre would like too, I think. Kind of like when he hands it off then pretends to throw it.

I didn't even get to follow the game on the computer. Dang. I wish they'd have won. One touchdown there and the whole team's outlook would have changed - and maybe ours, too.

[red]

i said in the game thread, that i thought the team should have had a play already in mind for that situation, and they should have taken a quick safe shot at the endzone. at worst you lose maybe 4 or 5 seconds, at best you score. if you catch them on their heals they don't have time to regroup and send the pressure

i would have liked 3 safe shots at the endzone, then a FG attempt. we could have gotten all those in as long as we just took shots at the endzone

i also very much agree with mad, and made a point about what he said in the game thread too. this team shows absolutely zero urgncey at the end of halfs and games. we got the ball back with 2:45 left and on 2 short plays we let 34 seconds run off the clock, and 41 seconds. from 1:52 to 1:11 we didn't run a play, and it threw us into panic mode, and mistakes were made. they did the same thing at the end of the first half, and instead of having a chance for a td on 3rd down from the rans 14, favre has to spike the ball with just a few seconds left to stop the clock so they could kick a fg. there should have been enough time to take one more shot at the endzone

not acceptable in my book, although i will accept the notion that some of the problem might be the young team. but they've all gone through this before

[Bretsky]

i said in the game thread, that i thought the team should have had a play already in mind for that situation, and they should have taken a quick safe shot at the endzone. at worst you lose maybe 4 or 5 seconds, at best you score. if you catch them on their heals they don't have time to regroup and send the pressure

i would have liked 3 safe shots at the endzone, then a FG attempt. we could have gotten all those in as long as we just took shots at the endzone

i also very much agree with mad, and made a point about what he said in the game thread too. this team shows absolutely zero urgncey at the end of halfs and games. we got the ball back with 2:45 left and on 2 short plays we let 34 seconds run off the clock, and 41 seconds. from 1:52 to 1:11 we didn't run a play, and it threw us into panic mode, and mistakes were made. they did the same thing at the end of the first half, and instead of having a chance for a td on 3rd down from the rans 14, favre has to spike the ball with just a few seconds left to stop the clock so they could kick a fg. there should have been enough time to take one more shot at the endzone

not acceptable in my book, although i will accept the notion that some of the problem might be the young team. but they've all gone through this before

Red,

Being at the game, we had several ornry fans about the end of the first half clock management. I had flashbacks to the very thing I criticized Sherman very harshly for last year.

I didn't fault them as bad in the 4th quarter, but clock management at the end of half one was horrid.

[Fritz]

From what I understand the coaches chose to take three long shots down the field and then had to hurry to settle for a FG? Is that what happened?

If so, that sounds plain dumb. Shermanesque, as it were.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I can't think of any scenario where it makes sense to spike when there is more than 30 seconds on the clock. Better to keep pressure on the defense - throw ball in endzone or to sidelines. You can always spike later if you get caught inbounds AND clock winds below 30 seconds.

[Patler]

I can't think of any scenario where it makes sense to spike when there is more than 30 seconds on the clock. Better to keep pressure on the defense - throw ball in endzone or to sidelines. You can always spike later if you get caught inbounds AND clock winds below 30 seconds.

Well, if you ignore all the factors that make a decision to spike the ball a good decision, of course you "can't think of any scenario".

[MJZiggy]

Coach said that they spiked the ball because there were two different plays to choose from in that situation and one of them was a run so they had to change personnel on the field and if they did that in the hurryup without stopping the clock, then they'd get a penalty like they did last time.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I can't think of any scenario where it makes sense to spike when there is more than 30 seconds on the clock. Better to keep pressure on the defense - throw ball in endzone or to sidelines. You can always spike later if you get caught inbounds AND clock winds below 30 seconds.

Well, if you ignore all the factors that make a decision to spike the ball a good decision, of course you "can't think of any scenario".

There aren't many factors. With a spike, you trade a play for about 8 to 12 seconds on the clock, the time it takes to call an audible and throw the ball out of bounds, if nobody is open.

The chance of a penalty in executing a spike is not so different than attempting a play.

Most of the advantages of a spike can be had by throwing the ball away, so they shouldn't be included in the argument.

Well, if a team is poorly coached, perhaps they are incapable of running a hurry-up offense in a pressure situation. In that case I'll grant you a spike may be necessary.

I came up with the 30-second cutoff for spikes because that is the time needed to run 4 passing plays. What is your cutoff? Would you spike the ball with 2 minutes left?

[MJZiggy]

Please read my above post. If he doesn't spike he gets a penalty and you are yelling at him for it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Please read my above post. If he doesn't spike he gets a penalty and you are yelling at him for it.

The explanation didn't make any sense to me. IF they have 11 men on field set to run a spike, they can also run an audible. Perhaps we have a case of poor coaching & preparation.

Spiking is a crutch that only rarely makes sense. Teams should prepare to function without spiking, keep two or three simple plays downfield available as an alternative to the spike.

If you are within 30 seconds, you don't have time to run all the plays available to you anyway - go ahead and spike.

[MJZiggy]

The can run an audible, but wanted to run the ball which required different personnel than were on the field, they needed an RB and FB instead of wideouts or something, but if they trade out personnel in the hurry up they get a flag.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The can run an audible, but wanted to run the ball which required different personnel than were on the field, they needed an RB and FB instead of wideouts or something, but if they trade out personnel in the hurry up they get a flag.

Well DON'T run the ball. Audible to a pass in the endzone, that's better than just throwing away a play, even if you don't get to use your preferred play.

I guess we just chalk this up to poor preparation and communication. They weren't able to make the most of a situation.

[Patler]

I guess we just chalk this up to poor preparation and communication. They weren't able to make the most of a situation.

I prefer to chalk it up to you taking a far too simplistic approach to the situation at hand, including the situation BEFORE the last play, the multiple plays that were probably called in the huddle at that time with the goal of getting a 1st down, not the touchdown, the personnel on the field, the experience and familiarity (or lack thereof) for about half the offense and most of the skilled players, etc.

I can see an argument for running a play and not spiking, but I certainly can't call spiking "wrong" and I think it was preferable myself.

[wist43]

I'm late to this debate... but, Bretsky is right - Get to the line, call a play, and run it... no need to worry about the clock.

IN THAT SITUATION, THE CLOCK IS NOT A FACTOR - except to consider how much time you may end up leaving your opponent. You're already in FG range for the tie... all that is left to do now is pump it into the endzone 3 times.

I didn't get the end of the game on tape... so I have been able to look very closely at the protection; but, it seems to me to be a no-brainer, that you max protect on all 3 pass attempts into the endzone - especially with a dangerous pass rusher like Little flying about.

What makes the situation worse, is that they had time to come up with that play call and protection b/c they wasted a down by killing the clock.

Not good clock management, not good game management.

[Patler]

Naw, spiking was perfectly fine when you have six players, a FB, a RB, two WRs and two guards with a combined experience level of 21 games in GB. Three in their 5th Packer game, two in their second (assuming Morency was in on the passing play, as he had been earlier) and one (Robinson) in his fourth packer game. Even if Herron was in the ball game, his experience is virtually nill.

But, if you insist on not "wasting" a play, rather than go no huddle, I would go with a quick huddle, so at least everyone would be clear on what would happen, Then go no huddle on the second play if for some reason the clock wasn't stopped by the first play.