McCarthy on the WR's

[KYPack]

This is from the JSO.

I find both the position by McCarthy and the fact that he comments on personnel matters wierd,

Quote on

Packers coach Mike McCarthy said Robinson's loss would cause him to make adjustments because the team is down to just three healthy receivers - Donald Driver, Greg Jennings and Ruvell Martin. The club is expected to elevate a practice squad receiver, probably Chris Francies, to the 53-man roster.

"These are the types of things you prepare for," McCarthy said. "Once again, that goes back to planning for your season. We do have four tight ends on our roster, we have two fullbacks, so we'll go in another direction. We have planned for this, and we will move accordingly as we get ready for Miami."

Quote off

Why do we have 4 TE's ?
Why do we have 2 FB's
Why do we have all these rookie DB's?
Who are our RB's?
Why don't we have any vet WR's to replace Robinson?
Who the fuck is Chris Francies?

Anybody know, evidently MM & TT don't have a clue.

We are no longer the youngest team in the NFL, we are the youngest team in the World!

[GrnBay007]

Chris Francies--

Ht: 6-1 Wt: 193
Position: WR
Date of Birth: 7/26/1982
Birthplace: Houston, TX

Biography:
Pro
2006: Signed as an undrafted free agent by the Packers on May 5.
College
Lettered four years and started the past three seasons in UTEP's 'Run 'n' Shoot' offense. ... Caught 44 passes for 774 yards and five TDs in 2005 to earn third-team All-Conference USA honors.

[vince]

No matter what Chicken Little says, the sky isn't falling people. This doesn't change the complexity of this team. As Patler (the voice of reason) has said, we're no worse off for this. We're talking about #3 and #4 receivers here, not Jerry Rice in his prime.

What have Fergie and Robinson done this year? One, maybe two nice catches apiece?

Is it possible that the Packers believe that Martin has the potential to be a good one, and want to give him an opportunity to further develop and display his talents on the field? COULD THAT BE THE PLAN?

No, TT and MM must not have a plan, since it doesn't correspond with your conception of what the plan should be.

The doomsdayers will seemingly hate it if we all find that Martin can actually be a productive receiver in this league. And if he sucks, well, then we know he sucks and can move on, thereby improving the team for the future. It's not like he's going to cost us a playoff spot.

Give these kids a chance this year.

[Ballboy]

Vince, I respect your thoughts......

...however, the point of the post is that MM said that is why we have 4 TE and 2 FB. Last time I checked, the reason these players are TE and FB are because of any of the following reasons:
1) Not GREAT hands
2) Slow
3) Not much YAC

I agree with the Ruvell, I liked him in preseason, but MM doesn't even mention him and so that would lead one to think he isn't the answer as we have NOT seen him in a game and MM has seen him in practice. If you can't look good against our DB's in practice, we are in trouble.

[Patler]

Vince, I respect your thoughts......

...however, the point of the post is that MM said that is why we have 4 TE and 2 FB. Last time I checked, the reason these players are TE and FB are because of any of the following reasons:
1) Not GREAT hands
2) Slow
3) Not much YAC

I agree with the Ruvell, I liked him in preseason, but MM doesn't even mention him and so that would lead one to think he isn't the answer as we have NOT seen him in a game and MM has seen him in practice. If you can't look good against our DB's in practice, we are in trouble.

The reasons TEs are TEs and FBs are FBs have nothing to do with their hands. Being able to catch is a pre-requisit of either position, as Vonta Leach learned. Granted, players at both positions tend to be slower than WRs, but also tend to be bigger and stronger. There are plenty of speedy WRs with not the best of hands.

The key will be adapting the play calling to the talents of the available players, not hoping a TE or FB can "replace" a WR. Donald Lee needs to get back into the mix. David Martin needs to stay healthy, and involved. Those two may be more important to the rest of the season than Ruvell Martin, Francies or Russell.

[Sparkey]

Vince, I respect your thoughts......

...however, the point of the post is that MM said that is why we have 4 TE and 2 FB. Last time I checked, the reason these players are TE and FB are because of any of the following reasons:
1) Not GREAT hands
2) Slow
3) Not much YAC

I agree with the Ruvell, I liked him in preseason, but MM doesn't even mention him and so that would lead one to think he isn't the answer as we have NOT seen him in a game and MM has seen him in practice. If you can't look good against our DB's in practice, we are in trouble.

It is called having roster flexibility. They can use a TE like Martin or Lee outside on slants and such. Besides, K-Rob was averaging 1.4 catches per game........Its not like we lost a 6 catch/100 yd per game receiver.

Also, I have no qualms with TT's roster moves. Fact is, the team was going to be bad. I'd rather have young inexperienced players make mistakes and hopefully improve than have slow footed vets make mistakes and decline.

In the JSO poll, people actually are voting for Freddie Mitchell as who GB should replace K-Rob with. LOL

[KYPack]

Well well.

I find myself in a very precarious situation.

I must disagree with Vince, Sparkey AND Vince.

But seeing as I heartily disagree with all three of these gents, I'm gonna go pier 6 on all of 'em.

Firstly, Vince put down them goddamned Green & Gold pom-poms,
they are obscuring your view of the field. I'm all for positive thinking and all that shit, but your stance is freaking ridiculous.

"This doesn't change the complexity of this team"

Are you shittin' me? We now have 3 recievers (4 if they add the kid from PS) Only Driver is a vet. That seems like a bit of complexity shift to me! If we run trips, we got a kid who's a UFA from El Paso playing WR who is our only back-up. DD and 3 rooks, yeah, that's some pretty shit at WR all right!

Yeah, it's not complex, but it just might be too simple!

Give Martin a chance and see if he can play? He better play, he's all we got!

"Give these kids a chance this year" ?!?! No Shit. They've gotten a chance to the tune of 18 or 19 rooks and 1st year players. That's about 8-10 too many.

You wanna call me a naysayer? Knock yourself out. I call 'em as I see 'em.

Patler, I'm not gonna rip too hard, pal. We don't need 4 TE's on this club, I don't care what you say.

Sparkey, try to miss when ya aim that flamethrower at me. My rap to you is the same as mine to Patler, basically. We just lost a vet WR. We need a decent vet WR. Freddy Mitchell, wouldn't let him wash my car

My criticsm of TT (& I guess MM is admitting he dabbles in personnel, too.) is yeah, he doesn't have plan B's. He dropped the ball big time on the guards last year. Ditto on the WR's, both this year AND last.

This year, he was light on KR's AND WR's when KROB fell in his lap. TT's "plan" was Cory Rogers or Blackmon. One sucked, the other got hurt. So, then TT has NO plan. He should've had a vet in place in case neither one of these kids worked out. He didn't but "lucked" into KROB.

And KROB was on super thin ice when we got him. When Robinson got aced, what was Thompson's back-up plan? Nothing, nada, zilch. We are in the same spot at WR we were last season. Looking for NFLE caliber bums to fill out our roster at WR. 12 months later, zero progress.

And that ain't acceptable, I don't care what any of ya say

[Tony Oday]

You know I like most of the things TT has done but F an A man this is BS. We are WAY under the cap and we cant even fill out a position on the offense. We have 3 fricken WR. Sure thats enough to get through a game but what if the following happen?

1. Favre gets DD killed again
2. Jennings tweaks a hammy after breaking some DBs ankles again
3. Ruvell gets his head taken off on a slant by Zach Thomas?

WHAT THE F!!!! At least sign enough guys to play the position! I mean you cant even play a game of Madden without 4 WR on the Roster! Lets use some fricken foresight here managment.

You know that every year a WR will get hurt it happens all the time.
The replacement we got for Boerigter and Garnder was facing a 1 year suspension! dont count on him long term! WTF!

Alright bring on the NFLE WR!

[Patler]

Patler, I'm not gonna rip too hard, pal. We don't need 4 TE's on this club, I don't care what you say.

Sparkey, try to miss when ya aim that flamethrower at me. My rap to you is the same as mine to Patler, basically. We just lost a vet WR. We need a decent vet WR. Freddy Mitchell, wouldn't let him wash my car

My criticsm of TT (& I guess MM is admitting he dabbles in personnel, too.) is yeah, he doesn't have plan B's. He dropped the ball big time on the guards last year. Ditto on the WR's, both this year AND last.

This year, he was light on KR's AND WR's when KROB fell in his lap. TT's "plan" was Cory Rogers or Blackmon. One sucked, the other got hurt. So, then TT has NO plan. He should've had a vet in place in case neither one of these kids worked out. He didn't but "lucked" into KROB.

And KROB was on super thin ice when we got him. When Robinson got aced, what was Thompson's back-up plan? Nothing, nada, zilch. We are in the same spot at WR we were last season. Looking for NFLE caliber bums to fill out our roster at WR. 12 months later, zero progress.

I never said we NEEDED 4 TEs, but we have them and have had them all season so far. That is the FACT of the situation. If that's what you have, you have to design the offense and call the plays to use the players you have, not the players you don't have. I said at the start of the season that 4 TEs and 4 WRs was a bit odd, but if TT kept the best receivers he had available, what's the difference? Who should he have kept? Boerigter? Gardner? Cory Rodgers? Bookman? All four were absolutely awful in preseason. Both Martin and Lee can get down field fairly well for a TE. Certainly not like a speedy WR, but their routes aren't as limited as Franks'. It is up to the coaches to make use of them.

Teams would love to have a #5 receiver that is as good as their #3 receiver, but virtually none do if their #3 is any good at all. Most teams would be very weak at WR if they lost one or two of their top 3. GB has lost its #3 (Ferguson) and #4 (Robinson). What teams have a #5 as good as their #3? How many really have a decent #4? Not many.

I think it is a bit too soon to say there is no backup plan until we see what happens. Don't expect a big contributor to be signed, there isn't one out there to be signed. There wasn't in preseason either. Lots of temas would like to improve their receiving corps, if they could.

The roster is 53 players. You can't have a 3rd and 4th option already in hand. In one off season, only a few positions can be upgraded substantially. The Packers did that with all 3 of their guards, they vastly improved their corps of linebackers and managed to bring in a very capabale receiver, while also finding at least promising replacements at kicker and punter. The jury is still out on the secondary, which was changed substantially but may not have been improved. That's a lot for one off season.

[KYPack]

Patler, I'm not gonna rip too hard, pal. We don't need 4 TE's on this club, I don't care what you say.


(snip)

I never said we NEEDED 4 TEs, but we have them and have had them all season so far. That is the FACT of the situation. If that's what you have, you have to design the offense and call the plays to use the players you have, not the players you don't have. I said at the start of the season that 4 TEs and 4 WRs was a bit odd, but if TT kept the best receivers he had available, what's the difference? Who should he have kept? Boerigter? Gardner? Cory Rodgers? Bookman? All four were absolutely awful in preseason. Both Martin and Lee can get down field fairly well for a TE. Certainly not like a speedy WR, but their routes aren't as limited as Franks'. It is up to the coaches to make use of them.

Teams would love to have a #5 receiver that is as good as their #3 receiver, but virtually none do if their #3 is any good at all. Most teams would be very weak at WR if they lost one or two of their top 3. GB has lost its #3 (Ferguson) and #4 (Robinson). What teams have a #5 as good as their #3? How many really have a decent #4? Not many.

I think it is a bit too soon to say there is no backup plan until we see what happens. Don't expect a big contributor to be signed, there isn't one out there to be signed. There wasn't in preseason either. Lots of temas would like to improve their receiving corps, if they could.

The roster is 53 players. You can't have a 3rd and 4th option already in hand. In one off season, only a few positions can be upgraded substantially. The Packers did that with all 3 of their guards, they vastly improved their corps of linebackers and managed to bring in a very capabale receiver, while also finding at least promising replacements at kicker and punter. The jury is still out on the secondary, which was changed substantially but may not have been improved. That's a lot for one off season.

Well, now we are headed back down to terra firma, with points that bear discussion.

I know you also said 4 TE's was a strange mix. I said the same thing, but basically still don't get it. The 4 TE's were better than the WR's that TT could choose from? Then he did a lousy job of lining up talent at that (WR)position.

You are right, it's tough to get 3 decent WR's let alone 5. The Bears would be estatic to get 2 fer crissakes!

I may be a little pre-mature in criticizing TT's plan, but I don't think so. He did an awful job last year with the WR's and this year looks practically identical.

TT did some great things in acquiring rookie talent this year. I love Greg Jennings, he should be a star for some time.

But once again, Thompson has failed miserably in acquiring Vet talent. To me, Pickett appears to be our only solid vet acquired. Woodsen is OK, but..... not worth the $

TT constantly errs on the side of youth, youth, youth.

We've got far too many unproven rooks on this club. Guys that will never make any impact on the team. We've got 18 -19 rooks. More if you factor in goofs like Coston. these unproven players make up too big a share of the roster.

Thompson must turn this trend around immediatley.

[Patler]

I really think TT expected that Rodgers would be the punt returner, and by default would occupy the 5th wide receiver spot because of it. Who would have thought that an experienced college punt returner would develope the "dropsies" in the NFL? The other four receivers would be Driver, Ferguson, Jennings and the best of Boerigter, Gardner, etc. Who would have thought that a former first round pick like Gardner would show so little as to not even merit the #4 spot? That was a big disappointment, not because I thought he could be a great player, but he should have made for a quality and experienced backup. All he needed to do was play as he did a couple years ago. Had things worked that way, it would have been a decent receiving corps.

This is nothing new for GB Only a few seasons have the Packers looked like they had any depth at WR at all. Most seasons you knew that if you lost a starter you were in trouble, and that hasn't changed. It was only a few years ago that they had to drag Antonio Freeman off the scrap heap to come in and play. I suspect it is the same for most teams.

I would like to have a better receiver or two, but I really can't identify someone that TT "missed on" and should have brought into camp. He had quite a batch, with a nice mix of veterans, rookies and long shots like Bookman wh had amazing speed. All he needed was for one of about 5 or 6 to step up, none did and several simply flamed out, including Boerigter, Gardner and Rodgers.

[Packnut]

WR

No matter what Chicken Little says, the sky isn't falling people. This doesn't change the complexity of this team. As Patler (the voice of reason) has said, we're no worse off for this. We're talking about #3 and #4 receivers here, not Jerry Rice in his prime.

What have Fergie and Robinson done this year? One, maybe two nice catches apiece?

Is it possible that the Packers believe that Martin has the potential to be a good one, and want to give him an opportunity to further develop and display his talents on the field? COULD THAT BE THE PLAN?

No, TT and MM must not have a plan, since it doesn't correspond with your conception of what the plan should be.

The doomsdayers will seemingly hate it if we all find that Martin can actually be a productive receiver in this league. And if he sucks, well, then we know he sucks and can move on, thereby improving the team for the future. It's not like he's going to cost us a playoff spot.

Give these kids a chance this year.

vince- this post really stunned me cause your better than this. Making up lame excuses for TT's lack of depth at WR is unbelievable. To say that a 2 TE set with a FB is just as good as a 3 or 4 WR set does'nt make any sense. If this was the case, than every NFL team would go to it. Having 3 and 4 WR sets on 3rd and long is a must. Not only for the passing game, but the obvious benefit of spreading out the D in order to run on 1st or 2nd down. A 2 TE set packs 7 or 8 in the box and you can't run consistently against that.

I understand those of you who defend TT, but good Lord, at least use some common sense! Chatman on 3rd down is a helluva lot better than Martin or some practice squad guy but TT in his infinite wisdom (insert sarcasm) signs a guy that EVERYONE knew was gonna be suspended. It's just another in a long line of examples where TT makes irrational moves without looking ahead to all the possible scenarios.

[GBRulz]

I may be a little pre-mature in criticizing TT's plan, but I don't think so. He did an awful job last year with the WR's and this year looks practically identical.

hell no - it is not pre-mature to criticize TT's plan. Err, what plan that is, I'm not sure.

Last year, the same crap happened when JW went down, he did NOTHING to try and find a replacement. Ok, we were strapped for cash and he probably didn't want to do anything to help Sherm's cause for having a lousy season. Fine. But this year....same shit, different day.

Just like last year, we went into our bye week VERY thin at WR. A bye week, a perfect time to bring in a couple of ol' vets into camp to see what they can do. Just like last year....he did nothing. So, the game after MN last year, Fergy goes down. Just like last year, he doesn't seem to think about injuries to the other WR's. TT needs to stop thinking OUTSIDE THE BUN and bringing in people like Taco and get some vet talent in here.

Granted our season is shot, but what if we were 3-2 and not completely out of the playoff race?? Which we easily could have been at this point. Did I expect us to make the playoffs this year, no, but my point is tat it's not the time to give our practice squad on the job training.

Anyhow, back to M3's comments. If he has a backup plan, then I expect to see some double TE formations...starting Sunday. I'll be waiting.....impatiently.

[Patler]

A bye week, a perfect time to bring in a couple of ol' vets into camp to see what they can do. Just like last year....he did nothing.

Who would you have had him bring in? I can't think of anyone.

[Rastak]

A bye week, a perfect time to bring in a couple of ol' vets into camp to see what they can do. Just like last year....he did nothing.

Who would you have had him bring in? I can't think of anyone.

So, make a trade....yea, I know they are rare but they happen....get someones 3rd reciever so you at least have something. Maybe Jennings and Driver will be enough, they are both pretty good. Time will tell.