McGinn : Wednesday Chat

[Creepy]

Talking to Walker after his injury was too late. Walker wanted the money with two years ona contract, GB wasn't going to pay him until the end of the season or the next year. When Walker got hurt he decided he wanted out of GB becuase he didn't get the money and the injury would keep him from getting the money he thought he could get in FA.

Had GB given him the money , he would have still been injured and we would have him instead of Jennings. At this time jennings has played better than Walker in his first two years and is a better fit than Walker. With Walker Favre would throw those hail mary's into coverage and Walker would come down with some of them, but I also remember quite a few being ints.

Wahle was good in the power game, but how eefectiv would he have been in the new cut blocking scheme. For Wahle to stay here GB would have to have stayed with the same running scheme and their is no guarantee that it wouldn't have changed to what we have now.

Nobody canb predict whether Wahle remaining last year would have given GB a 6-10 or better record. Rivera was still gone and Flanagan was injured or playing injured the entire season. Maybe GB would have ran a little better to the left, but no guarantee. It still doesn't mean that
the interior line would have protecetd better.

IMHO, get over Wahle being gone and get behind what is their. The running gamne is improving and if they open those same holes on Sunday with green intsead of herron, rthen you will see some big gains. herron did a great job, but on at least 3 occasions Gree with his pseed would have either went to the house or put GB in scoring position instead of a 6 to 9 yard gain.

[Packnut]

Re: Cap

The cap excuse has been worn to death by the TT supporters when in reality there were ways. The fact is TT did'nt even try with Wahle. He did'nt try with Walker. TT is a freaking moron.

No PNut.

That ain't true.

Read Patler's response. That is a great synopsis of the '05 cap nightmare.

Thompson had very few cards to play and made the best of a bad situation.

The Walker situation was totally different and I can see your criticism of that whole deal. Walker made that one hard. I would've liked to see a #1 pick for him, but it takes two to make a deal.

C'mon, there have been several national and local writers who paint a different picture than Patler does. We have an expert at the cap thing and your gonna tell me he could'nt have done something? It's funny how OTHER teams have managed to get things done is'nt it? Take a good look at Snyder. True, they went after the wrong guys but the cap did'nt get in the way.

[Packnut]

I agree with T2's decision not to sign Wahle, and felt that we long ago needed to strip down and rebuild. But to say T2 COULDN'T have signed Wahle is revisionism itself:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=306456

...Thompson refused to blame the losses on the tight salary cap situation he inherited when he was hired to replace coach Mike Sherman as general manager Jan. 14. He made it clear that his decision not to match the massive offers was based on his evaluation of their value and the needs of the team.

The Packers have $8.3 million in salary cap money tied into Clifton ($2.956 million), center Mike Flanagan ($2.708 million) and right tackle Mark Tauscher ($2.664 million) this season, and money might be best committed elsewhere.

Thompson said he could have adjusted the Packers' tight cap to accommodate the Wahle or Rivera contract, but it would have meant paying the price set in the market. It's very clear from his decision to pass on both players that Thompson set a price on their worth and decided he was not going to be bullied into a mistake.

"I don't want to blame it on the salary cap," Thompson said. "We just felt we pushed the envelope as far as we could go, and to their credit both players would have liked to stay here but the people who were after them were willing to go much higher than we were"....

Now Sharper has a role in this. They were $6 mil over after tendering Franks. And Franks didn't sign a long term deal until the eve of training camp, so even a cap friendly deal there wouldn't have helped.

To sign Wahle, the Pack might have needed to release Sharper earlier. And that would have meant a greater cap hit on his accelerated bonus in 05. But even Thompson says it COULD have been done.

And to complete the tortured logic of this post, I am glad he didn't. To juggle the cap to accomodate Wahle (or worse Sharper or Rivera) would have left the Pack with no flexibility for another couple of years. This is how Sherman got us into this mess.

I much prefer having the dollars in the season, extending those who deserve it and signing the rest to the players as LTBE incentives that we get back next year, ala Craig Nall last year.

Remember, the people claiming you can't get the cap money BACK next year clearly aren't paying attention.

I know you and I never agree on anything and this is the case again. It's funny how time makes people have selective memory. A few yrs back, the Pack led the league in short yardage success. Who the hell did Green run behind? It was Mr Wahle. Now go back to the Philly game and tell me that 1st half would'nt have been different with Wahle to run behind. May-be even the Bears game is different with Wahle in there on all those short yardage plays. Momentum can change a game.

To say we did'nt need Wahle is just ridiculous when you look at the fiasco at OL last season and this one. You claim the money is better spent else where. On who? Woodson and Manuel? We're what 8 mill under the cap? Add in the cash spent on Woodson and Manuel and then the signing bonuses TT paid to all the clowns he brought in that are gone. The money was there for Wahle and Walker.

[KYPack]

Re: Cap

The cap excuse has been worn to death by the TT supporters when in reality there were ways. The fact is TT did'nt even try with Wahle. He did'nt try with Walker. TT is a freaking moron.

No PNut.

That ain't true.

Read Patler's response. That is a great synopsis of the '05 cap nightmare.

Thompson had very few cards to play and made the best of a bad situation.

The Walker situation was totally different and I can see your criticism of that whole deal. Walker made that one hard. I would've liked to see a #1 pick for him, but it takes two to make a deal.

C'mon, there have been several national and local writers who paint a different picture than Patler does. We have an expert at the cap thing and your gonna tell me he could'nt have done something? It's funny how OTHER teams have managed to get things done is'nt it? Take a good look at Snyder. True, they went after the wrong guys but the cap did'nt get in the way.

I don't care how some national writers paint it. Hell, McGinn is just as bad. his statement I commented on is 100% wrong! If any writers disagree with the scenario Patler outlined, They are wrong.

Other teams don't always mamge to "fool" the cap.

Ask Tennessee if they fooled the cap. Why do you think they cuts six vet players a couple years ago? They were in the same cap jail we were in and had to make that move.

The cap is real. Few understand, you can't go over the cap. When you reach the limit, the league refuses to accept contracts from your team. That's why the Pack, the Titans and other teams have HAD to release players to get under the cap. if they didn't, they could sign no more players.

I've taken a look at Synder. He's had to do just what we are talking about. He's always right at the cap, but he's never been over it, because you can't be.

[Partial]

Re: Cap

The cap excuse has been worn to death by the TT supporters when in reality there were ways. The fact is TT did'nt even try with Wahle. He did'nt try with Walker. TT is a freaking moron.

No PNut.

That ain't true.

Read Patler's response. That is a great synopsis of the '05 cap nightmare.

Thompson had very few cards to play and made the best of a bad situation.

The Walker situation was totally different and I can see your criticism of that whole deal. Walker made that one hard. I would've liked to see a #1 pick for him, but it takes two to make a deal.

C'mon, there have been several national and local writers who paint a different picture than Patler does. We have an expert at the cap thing and your gonna tell me he could'nt have done something? It's funny how OTHER teams have managed to get things done is'nt it? Take a good look at Snyder. True, they went after the wrong guys but the cap did'nt get in the way.

I don't care how some national writers paint it. If they disagree with the scenario Patler outlined, They are wrong.

Other teams don't always mamge to "fool" the cap.

Ask Tennessee if they fooled the cap. Why do you think they cuts six vet players a couple years ago? They were in the same cap jail we were in and had to make that move.

Tyhe cap is real. Few understand, you can't go over the cap. When you reach the limit, the league refuses to accpet contracts from you team. that's why the Pack, the Titans and other teams have HAD to release players to get under the cap. if they didn't, they could sign no more players.

I've taken a look at Synder. He's had to do just what we are talking about. he's always right at the cap, but he's never been over it, because you can't be.

Poppycock! We were not in an even comparable situation to the Titans. They kept pushing back bonuses because from 1999-2004 they were one of the premier teams in the league trying to make a push while their window stayed open. The Packers were just at or below the cap because they had expensive players who weren't pulling their weight. They were not pushing back the big bucks annually to take another shot at the super bowl. They are two sepeate and very different situations you speak of. Not even close to the same.

[mraynrand]

The Packers were a premier team in both 2002 and 2003. They were 8-1 in 2002 before injuries became crippling and were 1 play (several 1 plays) away from being in the NFC championship game in 2003. If that's not premier then we have different definitions of the word. Sherman was doing exactly the same thing as the Titans - trying to keep together a squad of veterans for a last push at the Superbowl with Favre. These are obvious facts.