I take issue with Cliff Cristl's take

[esoxx]

Re: I take issue with Cliff Cristl's take

What he's not is an elite receiver. He's not Randy Moss. He's not Javon Walker.

I think when you boil it down, this was Christl's point. I agree he's not an elite receiver. There's Moss, Steve Smith, Holt, TO...those types, and then there's the next tier of very good receivers. I see Driver in that next tier.

Is Moss still an elite reciever?

Absolutely. You should know this better than anyone Rastak... Randy plays when he feels like it. And he ain't feeling like it this year being on a pathetic Raider team with Andrew Walter at QB. Get this guy on a good team with a good QB and you'd see him come to life. It's sad that he needs that to be motivated, like the huge paycheck and being a professional isn't enough, but that's the case with him.

He's never had a major injury either. Just a matter of bein' interested is all.

[Rastak]

Re: I take issue with Cliff Cristl's take

What he's not is an elite receiver. He's not Randy Moss. He's not Javon Walker.

I think when you boil it down, this was Christl's point. I agree he's not an elite receiver. There's Moss, Steve Smith, Holt, TO...those types, and then there's the next tier of very good receivers. I see Driver in that next tier.

Is Moss still an elite reciever?

Absolutely. You should know this better than anyone Rastak... Randy plays when he feels like it. And he ain't feeling like it this year being on a pathetic Raider team with Andrew Walter at QB. Get this guy on a good team with a good QB and you'd see him come to life. It's sad that he needs that to be motivated, like the huge paycheck and being a professional isn't enough, but that's the case with him.

He's never had a major injury either. Just a matter of bein' interested is all.

The fact that he's disinterested drops him far from elite in my eyes. He isn;t even in the top 30 for catches or yards. I don't mind him dogging it once in while when the play is going the other way but when it's coming your way and you just stand there.....I defended him for years but he lost me when he walked off the field in Washington with the game still going on....I wouldn't call a player like that elite....he may have elite speed and skills but the whole package doesn't add up to elite, not anymore.

[Fritz]

This argument can devolve into semantics - is DD an "elite" receiver or is he "just" super, super good? Basically I think we're all saying he's a damn good player and we like him. For Uncle Cliffy to pick out one play from scrimmage - one route DD ran and didn't get open on - and use that to demonstrate why DD is not "elite" is like pointing out one crappy throw that Johnny Unitas made and saying it demonstrates why he's really not that great. Come on.

Hey, Zigs, I wondered if you have a link or info to get me to that article about JWalk crying about not getting the ball enough. I'd love to see it.

[MJZiggy]

I found it googling something else. This isn't the same article that I saw, but basically says the same thing.

Bronco offense frustrates Walker

He says he's not the only receiver who's unhappy

By Ryan Thorburn, Camera Sports Writer
October 17, 2006

ENGLEWOOD — Team wins, star receiver complains.

The Dallas Cowboys and Terrell Owens? Not this time.

29th Street
The Oakland Raiders and Randy Moss? The Silver and Black hasn't won yet.

It was actually Javon Walker — the Broncos' leading receiver with 20 catches for 388 yards (19.4 per) — who decided to express his displeasure with coach Mike Shanahan's offense publicly the morning after Denver's 13-3 victory over the rival Raiders at Invesco Field.

"I know I'm frustrated," Walker said on Monday. "Because I'm used to scoring points, used to having a little bit more opportunities to put us in position to score."

Walker, acquired on draft day from Green Bay for a second-round pick, had four catches for 75 yards against the Raiders. Moss had five receptions for 86 yards (17.6 per).

But take away Walker's 54-yard reception, which set up the game's only touchdown, and Jake Plummer completed only 10 of 17 passes for 48 yards the rest of the evening.

Rush Limbaugh thinks that's too conservative.

"I feel like anytime I can get the ball in my hands something good can happen and I think more points can be scored," Walker continued. "I'm just executing the plays that are called right now."

Shanahan is ultimately the man responsible for calling those plays.

Despite a 4-1 record, the Broncos are averaging only 12.4 points per game. During the 1998 regular season, Shanahan's offense averaged 31.3 points en route to the franchise's second consecutive Super Bowl victory.

Entering Monday night's Chicago-Arizona game, the Broncos were ranked 30th in net passing yards per game (144.8). Plummer's passer rating (63.1) ranked 30th among his peers.

"Javon is as classy a guy as you could ever be around and he wants the ball," Shanahan said when told of Walker's comments. "Rod Smith wants the ball and he handles it in a different way."

Walker had 89 receptions for 1,382 yards (15.5 per) with 12 touchdowns for the Packers in 2004. But after a training camp holdout that caused his relationship with Brett Favre and management to sour, he sustained a torn anterior cruciate ligament in the 2005 opener.

That facilitated the move to Denver for a fresh start and a chance to prove his worth as a No. 1 receiver.

Smith, the franchise's leading receiver the past nine seasons, only has 16 catches for 325 yards so far this year.

"I don't want to go there," Smith said in the postgame locker room when asked about his role in the offense this season.

Walker, who did not speak with reporters on Sunday night, says he isn't the only receiver unhappy with the passing game.

"We all feel the same way and we all talk about it," Walker said. "We'll just come back and practice this week and see where it takes us going into Cleveland."

Shanahan pointed out the fact that Denver only had three offensive possessions in the second half, totaling 15 plays. And Walker dropped a pass that could have moved the chains.

"Javon knows in the back of his mind that he'd better take advantage of those opportunities when the ball hits him in the hands," Shanahan said. "So there's always good and bad in every situation. We've got to work on the little things and keep on trying to get better."

The good news is that Denver's defense has only allowed one touchdown in five games. The last person the players on that side of the ball want to hear from right now is a disgruntled wide receiver.

"I know in practice there are a lot of plays that could lead to big points and things of that nature. It's all about execution," Broncos safety Nick Ferguson said. "Who's to say that those plays were not in and they just didn't get executed properly? ...

"Our coaches, I feel, give us the best opportunity to win games. And sometimes it's all about execution."

http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/broncos/article/0,1713,BDC_2453_5072155,00.html

[Lurker64]

Good to see that the high mountain air hasn't made JWalk any smarter, or humbler. I kind of liked him better before he had Lasik, he couldn't catch a damn thing but at least he kept his mouth shut about it. I just want to see what happens when Plummer tells Walker to take a paycut.

[Bretsky]

"Javon is as classy a guy as you could ever be around and he wants the ball," Shanahan said when told of Walker's comments. "Rod Smith wants the ball and he handles it in a different way."


DIG

[Partial]

Good to see that the high mountain air hasn't made JWalk any smarter, or humbler. I kind of liked him better before he had Lasik, he couldn't catch a damn thing but at least he kept his mouth shut about it.

[Fritz]

"Javon is as classy a guy as you could ever be around and he wants the ball," Shanahan said when told of Walker's comments. "Rod Smith wants the ball and he handles it in a different way."


DIG

Dude, we are on the exact same wavelength here. As soon as I saw this I thought, oh, there's some coachspeak for ya. He's trying to rip JWalk but not rip him at the same time. Yeah, ol' Javon's a classy guy...but Rod Smith wants the ball too and he handles it differently.

As in better. What Shanny's really saying is this: "Well, I don't want to piss off my whiny star receiver, but Rod Smith is an icon in Denver and he's not crying publicly about not getting the ball enough."

So now I'm wondering if maybe I was wrong in thinking TT made a huge mistake in not offering JWalk an extension after he got hurt last year. I thought at the time it would be a peace-making move, but it looks like even if Walker had gotten his extension in Green Bay he'd still be pissing and moaning.