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  • #1

    POSTSEASON DEFENSIVE COACHING ADJUSTMENTS/NEEDS/REVIEW

    Cloudflare Captcha Page
    http://pu2006.typepad.com/packerupdate/2007/01/defensive_staff.html


    Defensive staff wasn't up to the task PackerUpdate.com

    “That should never happen in the NFL,” said Hall of Fame coach and commentator John Madden after the Packers gave up a 75-yard touchdown to Chicago’s Mark Bradley in the season finale. He’s 100% right, and yet that same type of play occurred time after time in 2006. What hampered the pass defense all season was inadequate play at the safety positions and constant miscommunication brought on by an inability to adjust to different personnel groupings and shifts in formation. While the former can be addressed in free agency and/or the draft, the latter can only be dealt with by a change or two on the sidelines. “[Coordinator] Bob Sanders ran the same scheme that Jim Bates implemented the year before, and yet the defense gave up 17 more plays of over 20 yards,” said a former scout. “And considering all the talent that was added during the offseason, that’s just not acceptable. Somebody besides Ahmad Carroll has to be held accountable.” Unfortunately, that isn't happening.

    Mike McCarthy publicly supported Sanders and secondary coach Kurt Schottenheimer all season long, and truth be told, it would be difficult for any first-year head coach to make changes to his staff. That would be admitting a mistake, and nobody likes to do that. But the fact remains that Bates’ defense was better in ‘05, and that was with a hobbling Grady Jackson at nose tackle, journeymen Robert Thomas and Paris Lenon at linebacker, Carroll at corner and Mark Roman at safety. And while Bates’ group wasn’t nearly as good as its impressive overall ranking (No. 7), they played with great emotion and were able to limit the number of big plays. “Personally, I don’t think Sanders and Schottenheimer are good enough at their jobs to take this defense to the next level,” said the scout. “ McCarthy might feel enthused about how things went in the final four games, but I can’t forget about what New England and the Jets did just before that. They made the defense look both unprepared and amateurish, and that’s something no head coach should ever accept.”

    TOP HAT'S FOOTNOTE: Were postseason coaching adjustments, i.e. an assistant coach for defense etc, enough to take to next top tier level?
    Tags: None
  • #2
    The last 4 games saved Schottenheimer for sure, and maybe even Sanders - b/c prior to playing those final 4 games against skid row bums, the defense was abysmal on just about every level.

    I would argue that they surely improved to some degree, but there was nowhere to go but up from where they were. That said, they certainly aren't a very talented or well coached unit by any means.

    Against a decent offense - they'll continue to get blown off the field... the scheme is flawed, Sanders is in over his head, and Schottenheimer is a waste of skin.

    To have even the remotest chance against a decent offense, they've got to upgrade at Safety (maybe Underwood)... at the end of the day, however, they're still going to be playing that passive, predictable scheme, and they'll continue to struggle.
    wist

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: POSTSEASON REVIEW: DEFENSIVE COACHING

      Originally posted by TopHat
      Mike McCarthy publicly supported Sanders and secondary coach Kurt Schottenheimer all season long, and truth be told, it would be difficult for any first-year head coach to make changes to his staff. That would be admitting a mistake, and nobody likes to do that.
      Well, the Vikings sacked their WR coach after a poor rookie showing, so it does happen. I read an article today where a Viking WR said Wyatt (the fired guy) was in over his head basically. I like the fact they recognized it and made a change.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: POSTSEASON REVIEW: DEFENSIVE COACHING

        Originally posted by TopHat
        http://pu2006.typepad.com/packerupdate/2007/01/defensive_staff.html

        Defensive staff wasn't up to the task PackerUpdate.com

        “That should never happen in the NFL,” said Hall of Fame coach and commentator John Madden after the Packers gave up a 75-yard touchdown to Chicago’s Mark Bradley in the season finale. He’s 100% right, and yet that same type of play occurred time after time in 2006. What hampered the pass defense all season was inadequate play at the safety positions and constant miscommunication brought on by an inability to adjust to different personnel groupings and shifts in formation. While the former can be addressed in free agency and/or the draft, the latter can only be dealt with by a change or two on the sidelines. “[Coordinator] Bob Sanders ran the same scheme that Jim Bates implemented the year before, and yet the defense gave up 17 more plays of over 20 yards,” said a former scout. “And considering all the talent that was added during the offseason, that’s just not acceptable. Somebody besides Ahmad Carroll has to be held accountable.” Unfortunately, that isn't happening.

        Mike McCarthy publicly supported Sanders and secondary coach Kurt Schottenheimer all season long, and truth be told, it would be difficult for any first-year head coach to make changes to his staff. That would be admitting a mistake, and nobody likes to do that. But the fact remains that Bates’ defense was better in ‘05, and that was with a hobbling Grady Jackson at nose tackle, journeymen Robert Thomas and Paris Lenon at linebacker, Carroll at corner and Mark Roman at safety. And while Bates’ group wasn’t nearly as good as its impressive overall ranking (No. 7), they played with great emotion and were able to limit the number of big plays. “Personally, I don’t think Sanders and Schottenheimer are good enough at their jobs to take this defense to the next level,” said the scout. “ McCarthy might feel enthused about how things went in the final four games, but I can’t forget about what New England and the Jets did just before that. They made the defense look both unprepared and amateurish, and that’s something no head coach should ever accept.”

        TOP HAT'S FOOTNOTE: Were postseason coaching adjustments, i.e. an assistant coach for defense etc, enough?

        GREAT WRITEUP

        I wondered out loud a few times if playing some VERY bad offenses at the end would lead to these guys keeping their job.

        Over the season the performance was unacceptable.

        Sanders MIGHT be debateable; Schottenheimer is not.

        I'd think more of MM if he'd have taken some action assertively dealing with the failures of last year.
        TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

        Comment

        • #5
          I have a feeling that M3 will be keeping a much closer watch on the defensive side of the ball than he did last year.
          "Greatness is not an act... but a habit.Greatness is not an act... but a habit." -Greg Jennings

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by MJZiggy
            I have a feeling that M3 will be keeping a much closer watch on the defensive side of the ball than he did last year.

            Actions, in this scenario, would speak louder than his babbling words of consistent support he showed these guys throughout the chaos
            TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

            Comment

            • #7
              Didn't he start attending the defensive meetings and things like that toward the end of the season? Right about the time they started pulling themselves together?
              "Greatness is not an act... but a habit.Greatness is not an act... but a habit." -Greg Jennings

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by MJZiggy
                Didn't he start attending the defensive meetings and things like that toward the end of the season? Right about the time they started pulling themselves together?

                I don't think I ever heard or read that.

                Our defense shaped for two reasons. Cullen Jenkins solidified the DE positions and we played crap offenses.

                Had nothing to do with our coaches instantly becoming more competent.
                TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

                Comment

                • #9
                  When did Bretsky turn into Wist Jr.?
                  "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
                    When did Bretsky turn into Wist Jr.?

                    I wouldn't go that far; this defense has a ton of talent. The CB's are solid, and they have two very good LB's. But the biggest improvement was when Jenkins excelled at the DE positions.

                    We did play crap offenses at the end of the year. I think that had a lot more to do with the improvement then the improved quality of coaching.

                    And for a good portion of the season our defensive level of coaching was completely unacceptable.

                    I'm shocked and disappointed that Nottenheimer is still there.

                    I'm down the middle on Sanders.

                    Personally I've felt like he's been over his head from day one but I'm willing to give him more time.
                    TERD Buckley over Troy Vincent, Robert Ferguson over Chris Chambers, Kevn King instead of TJ Watt, and now, RICH GANNON, over JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY LEONARD. Thank you FLOWER

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: POSTSEASON REVIEW: DEFENSIVE COACHING

                      Originally posted by Rastak
                      Originally posted by TopHat
                      Mike McCarthy publicly supported Sanders and secondary coach Kurt Schottenheimer all season long, and truth be told, it would be difficult for any first-year head coach to make changes to his staff. That would be admitting a mistake, and nobody likes to do that.
                      Well, the Vikings sacked their WR coach after a poor rookie showing, so it does happen. I read an article today where a Viking WR said Wyatt (the fired guy) was in over his head basically. I like the fact they recognized it and made a change.
                      Why didn't they fire Childress it was obvious to me he is in way over his head can't handle complaints,players, or reporters.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Maybe our Defensive Backfield coach is so far in over his head that he doesn't know he's in over his head.

                        "We seemed to have some trouble last game with weakside people getting messed up on assignments when they sent their slot receiver deep as the running back motioned into a deep cross pattern so...umm...let's work on our backpedaling footwork again."
                        [QUOTE=George Cumby] ...every draft (Ted) would pick a solid, dependable, smart, athletically limited linebacker...the guy who isn't doing drugs, going to strip bars, knocking around his girlfriend or making any plays of game changing significance.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          CLARIFICATION: WHAT IS GOING ON

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                          http://www.packerchatters.com/op-ed/view.php?id=299


                          Around the NFL by Joe Arrigo PackerChatters.com

                          Packers new Assistant HC/LB coach Winston Moss is being groomed to take over for current DC Bob Sanders, I have learned. Sanders needs to have the Packers defense playing at the level they were the last 4 weeks of the 2006 season, otherwise he'll be out of the NFL after the 2007 season....

                          http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=61&p=2&c=610971&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fpackers.scout.com%2f2%2f610971.html


                          Sydney Speaks! Another piece of the puzzle. Moss in line to take charge of Packers defense By Harry Sydney Scout.com

                          PackerReport.com's Harry Sydney offers his take on how Green Bay Packers fans should interpret Winston Moss's promotion this week to assistant head coach/defense.


                          TOP HAT'S FOOTNOTE: TOO LITTLE...TOO LATE for '07 SEASON?

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            "said a former scout."

                            Why is it that an anonymous former scout gets all this cred about judging some team's defensive coaches? So what if some guy said that?

                            Let's see how the D does next year, and then we'll know.
                            "The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."

                            KYPack

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              ADJUSTMENTS AND '07

                              As a fan said on another forum, "By then it will be too late. We'll be stuck with an overmatched DC for the whole season. Doubt MM would fire his DC midway through the season, but with Moss waiting in the wings, he could have a replacement ready....Seems like the two major changes helped the defense - Jenkins and more man coverage, and both of those came from the HC"

                              Whether he is a "former scout" is irrelevant. The perceptive professional comments, echoed by many voices in the NFL, speak to a serious coaching issue about being "outcoached and outplayed" against elite teams.

                              I hoped that the defensive issue would be addressed. It was as a long term adjustment among young coaching wanna bes. We shall see....

                              Comment

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