NFL legends can't make ends meet

[Bretsky]

It would be interesting to find the number of lawsuits and the details of why so many players are legally taking actions against the NFLPA. There is a load of them. Upshaw goes to bat for nobody except the players of today

[Patler]

Upshaw goes to bat for nobody except the players of today

That may be true, but the NFLPA is not the only union that has abandoned its retirees. It's a common scenario, negotiate for the current members and give lip-service to the older ones.

[Guiness]

Ya, this has gone around a few times. The problem exists in the NHL as well. You can argue that the old guys did it because they loved it, and most would've done it anyways knowing the consequences, but the truth is that the money's out there to help them.

You can blame Upshaw if you want, but you have to admit that he's just doing as he's being directed to by his boss', the current players. I think it behooves them, or their reps at least, to raise the issue at a damn meeting. If something is tabled, and gets a positive vote, Upshaw will implement it!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ya, this has gone around a few times. The problem exists in the NHL as well. You can argue that the old guys did it because they loved it, and most would've done it anyways knowing the consequences, but the truth is that the money's out there to help them.

You can blame Upshaw if you want, but you have to admit that he's just doing as he's being directed to by his boss', the current players. I think it behooves them, or their reps at least, to raise the issue at a damn meeting. If something is tabled, and gets a positive vote, Upshaw will implement it!

Let's also give today's players a little credit. They've increased the pension for the old-timers more than players of 10-20 years ago. It may not be enough, but it's more than it was.

[Bretsky]

Ya, this has gone around a few times. The problem exists in the NHL as well. You can argue that the old guys did it because they loved it, and most would've done it anyways knowing the consequences, but the truth is that the money's out there to help them.

You can blame Upshaw if you want, but you have to admit that he's just doing as he's being directed to by his boss', the current players. I think it behooves them, or their reps at least, to raise the issue at a damn meeting. If something is tabled, and gets a positive vote, Upshaw will implement it!

In the special they compared the treatment of the NFLPA with other professions and noted it was by far the worst; I'm not familiar with hockey so I can't give a view there.

Much of it was interviewing Ditka and some players who are being wronged when the NFLPA refused to pay for sugeries and the mutlitude of lawsuits they are being waged. That along with ridicule of Upshaw from the hosts.
Sad.

But you are right; Upshaw is working for those that currently employ him

[Bretsky]

FROM PRO FOOTBALL WEEKLY

St. Louis Post-Dispatch columnist Brian Burwell finished the session by asking union president Gene Upshaw, sternly, “I am a little confused. You talked about the oldest players, and how, back when you were playing, you were told what doctors to go to and (that) a lot of times you didn’t know what your own diagnosis was. … In light of those kinds of those kind of working conditions that you and all of the older players that I have talked to dealt with, isn’t there any way, as this huge, enormous pie continues to grow, that you can find some extra money for them?”

Upshaw retorted by saying there is $60 million paid each year — money that comes directly from current players’ salaries — that benefits former players drawing pensions. “They’re the ones who put that money in. That’s where that money comes from,” Upshaw, a retired player, said. “We just spent $51 million this (past) year to improve the benefits for guys like me. And it’s not just this year. It goes all the way back (to 1993).”

There are nearly 9,000 former players who are eligible for benefits, but fewer than 200 get long-term benefits. Many NFL alumni have suffered serious medical problems after their careers have ended, a lot of whom have distanced themselves from the league they feel has left them behind. The NFLPA says a new $50-a-month increase in the new CBA should help matters.

[KYPack]

This is a good thread.

Obviously something needs to be done.

Harve's earlier post was a highly exaggerated, but a valid point. An across the board pension increase is probably impossible. HW's earlier figure of 60 mill a year for pensioner's isn't gonna happen. (20 mill a year would catch the old guys up quite nicely. Most of 'em get something, you'd just enhance that amount) Even at a lesser amount, that would choke the fund immediately.

NFL Legends (with FULL NFL support) should be able to build a war chest of 20 million or so and have annual revenue of 5 - 10 million. It would be a charitable organization (w/ all contributions tax deductible) that would provide help on a case by case basis. One of the first jobs would be to take care of the pre- '60 players.

Legends would be a helluva a PR resource to the league and would generate incremental revenue from new markets. It would have to ramp up and be pretty active for about 15 - 20 years. Then the newer pension rates would take care of a lot of the problems.

MLB already has a "Legends type" organization, called the Baseball Assistance Team (BAT). It's under the MLB umbrella and generates it's own money from private sources. A recent BAT dinner in NY (with the requisite Superstars) generated $5 million . MLB does this quietly & doles out the money in the same fashion.

If the NFL has a similar org, everybody in the Western Hemisphere would know of it.

The NFL has an old boys team. It's called the NFLPA Alumni. It falls under Gene Upshaw and doesn't do squat.

It needs to be a separate organization with it's own leadership.

[MJZiggy]

Who's leading it?

[HarveyWallbangers]

There are nearly 9,000 former players who are eligible for benefits, but fewer than 200 get long-term benefits.

1) I'd like to know how many former players need long-term benefits. The more recent retirees made larger salaries. The older retirees often used their name to get into the door of companies and did well or made money from selling memoribilia. I would assume many better prepared for retirement than others.
2) I wonder what long-term benefits mean. The pension fund covers a whole lot more than just 200. Any player that played 3 or 4 years (depending on when they played) gets pension.
3) I wonder if this includes the emergency PTA fund that the NFLPA created in the early 90s. This has said to have helped over 700 players in "emergency situations" since then.

Bottom line: the old-timers probably could get more, but I think the numbers are probably skewed also. The truth is probably somewhere in between. Is it even reasonable to think the league or NFLPA could fully support the retirement of every player that's been in the league the way some of these guys want to be supported? The league goes back to the early 20s. That's a lot of players to cover for a league whose average player only plays 4 years (which is not typical of large corporations). Did these guys not prepare for retirement outside of what the NFLPA provides? Some of these guys only played in the league for a few years. Didn't their other jobs provide a pension/retirement fund? The league provides at least $200/month for every year of service in the league. That means a player playing 8 years would now get $1600/month in pension. Darrell Green makes over $5,000/month on his pension play for his 20 years of NFL service. However, that's not the entirety of their working careers. Their other jobs and their own investments should have supplemented this plan. Most of us wouldn't be able to live off our retirement fund if we only worked 8 years.

$40,000/current player to cover the pension funds of ex-players sounds reasonable.

[GBRulz]

Kind of getting OT here, but I'm curious if this same argument is going to be going on 25-30 years from now? I would like to see a portion of current players salaries being held in some kind of an interest bearing fund set aside for medical emergencies and health care, etc. The player is entitled to every penny in that fund, if they don't use it, then it goes to their estate, so I'm not talking like a social security type reform here.

The older retirees made squat and many had to have 2nd jobs just to support themselves. Obviously, this is not the case with today's salaries. Yet, we hear stories like Cletius Hunt not being able to pay his $250,000 bill at a Milwaukee jewelry store. Then getting his furniture repossed, etc. My point is, that to effectively find a solution to benefit the retirees of the NFL, the current players need to start being educated on their spending habits. Otherwise, this trend is just going to continue on and on....

The league should take care of the older retirees, I agree. But the players of today need to start taking responsibility with their money as well. The NFL should not have to take care of a player 50 years from now, because he has nothing left to show of his $20 million dollar contract.

[MJZiggy]

I thought the current players had help with money management stuff as a resource. I thought I also saw something about a generous retirement fund in the CBA.

[KYPack]

Jerry Kramer was on CNN discussing this issue today. There may be less than 100 old time players that would require pension assistance.

Git er Done, NFL

[Scott Campbell]

You can blame Upshaw if you want, but you have to admit that he's just doing as he's being directed to by his boss', the current players.

If the price of your concsience is a paycheck, I can see how some might give Upshaw a pass. I won't. He played with many of the guys that he is now hurting.

[Scott Campbell]

I have no in depth understanding of all the legal issues, but with all these lawsuits, is it possible that OSHA might one day have us all watching flag football?

[HarveyWallbangers]

The NFL old-timers have it made compared to the NASCAR old-timers.

With no pension plan, NASCAR's first stars are easily forgotten
By JENNA FRYER, AP Auto Racing Writer

PAMPLICO, S.C. (AP) -- The living room of Sam Ard's brown doublewide trailer speaks to his short but successful NASCAR career. Trophies surround the fireplace and crowd its mantel. Plaques and pictures dot the living room walls.

What's not there speaks to Ard's life after NASCAR, the two championship rings and a handful of grandfather clocks from Martinsville Speedway that he sold because ``we was running short on cash.''

Unlike veterans of other sports, Ard has no pension to fall back on.

As the booming stock-car series built by men such as Sam Ard heads to Daytona International Speedway this week to kick off its 59th season, NASCAR remains the only major-league sport without a pension plan.

``You can drive for NASCAR, but when it's over, it's over. You get nothing,'' Ard said. ``When you fall out of racing or something happens to you, it seems like NASCAR just forgets about you. It's your friends and the people around the race track who have to remember you and keep you going.''

Other leagues have pensions. Today's 10-year veterans in baseball will receive a six-figure annual payout beginning at age 62. Even middle-of-the-road professional golfers can pile up millions under the PGA Tour's deferred-compensation plan, which puts money away for players based on performance.

An NFL player with six seasons between 1998 and 2003 will get about $2,500 a month beginning at age 55, and the NBA has a similar plan. The NHL contributes about $45,000 per year to retirement accounts for veterans. The ATP and WTA tours make annual contributions averaging between $7,500 and $9,500 to retirement accounts for each tennis player.

NASCAR's policy always has been that its drivers are ``independent contractors'' who bear full responsibility for their finances, health care, retirement and life insurance.

Few in NASCAR are arguing for a fund to help today's drivers, who make millions from team contracts and even more from race purses and merchandise sales. Jeff Gordon, the sport's all-time money leader, has won a record $82,366,716 through 14 full seasons and isn't sure what the responsibility should be.

``We don't want to make NASCAR go broke like some other companies out there with pension plans have done,'' said the four-time Nextel Cup champion. ``We all need to be responsible for our actions.''

But if NASCAR wants to compete with other major sports, Gordon said drivers are going to ask for similar benefits.

``We are now competing with the NFL, basketball, the NHL,'' Gordon said. ``And so, should we be compared to them on every level? And when it comes to this subject, there is no comparison. I mean, I don't even think we are on the board.''

Old-timers have lobbied for years for some sort of fund to help repay the men, like Ard, who contributed to the sport and now are struggling to make ends meet.

``It would almost cost nothing,'' said Jack Ingram, the 1985 Busch champion. ``It wouldn't be many people that's not wealthy that contributed a lot to this sport, but they're ... destitute. (Ard's) a NASCAR champion; he's living in a trailer house. It shouldn't be that way.''

Jo Ard wife of Busch Series Champion Sam Ard, listens to her husband as he talks about racing during an interview at their home, Thursday, Jan. 11, 2007, in Pamplico, S.C. Unlike veterans of other sports, Sam Ard has no pension to fall back on.

Ard, two-time Busch Series champion, has Alzheimer's. Jo, his wife of 46 years, has a degenerative eye disease that's slowly stealing her sight.

Between Social Security, Sam's veterans benefits and what Jo picks up cleaning houses, the Ards bring in roughly $1,600 a month. After the mortgage payment of $426.96, car insurance on Ard's 1993 Ford Ranger, utilities, phone and cable, there's only about $123 left.

They don't advertise their problems or complain. Even so, individual members of the NASCAR community have stepped up to help.

From the desk near the fireplace Jo Ard pulls out a letter from Dale Earnhardt Jr. and Kevin Harvick that circulated through the NASCAR community late last year and recently was forwarded to her. She's a proud woman, so showing it to a stranger isn't easy.

``To All:

``Many of you may not be aware that one of NASCAR's pioneers and champion, Sam Ard, is in very poor health and dire straits. ... If it wasn't for men like Sam, none of us would be able to enjoy the lifestyle we live today. We all do charity work and give back to the community, this time it's one of our own.''

If Jo Ard had her way, the letter wouldn't exist, and she and her beloved ``Sammy'' wouldn't need handouts.

Although some inside NASCAR -- specifically president Mike Helton and spokesman Jim Hunter -- have given financial assistance on a case-by-case basis, they aren't prepared to fund a pension.

``I think the biggest detriment to a pension plan, aside from the fact that they are not NASCAR employees, is trying to decide who would pay for it and what the eligibility factors would be,'' Hunter said. ``How many years would you go back? To 1948? Or would you start in the 50s? Or the 60s? Or the 70s? There's a lot of issues that would need to be figured out.''

Tony Stewart, a two-time Cup champion who routinely dips into his own pocket to quietly support the old-timers, believes NASCAR could do more to help.

``I'm not going to say they have the responsibility, but it'd sure be nice,'' Stewart said.

Part of the problem is there's no way to gauge how many drivers are in need, or who would be eligible if a plan existed.

Sam Ard gestures as he talks about his time as the record setting Busch Series championships at home Thursday, Jan. 11, 2007, in Pamplico, S.C. Unlike veterans of other sports, Sam Ard has no pension to fall back on.
AP - Feb 6, 1:55 pm EST
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The independent-contractor model isn't unique to NASCAR and is followed in almost every form of motorsports. Unlike crew members who work for teams that provide full benefits and 401(k)s, drivers are on their own.

``Those are the rules going in, and we all know it,'' said two-time Daytona 500 winner Michael Waltrip. ``I don't think you can find any driver that, if you put a NASCAR ride in front of him, would say, 'Wait, this doesn't come with a pension plan? No retirement fund? No insurance? No thanks. I'm not interested.'

``No driver in their right mind would walk away.''

That includes Ard.

Like so many drivers from NASCAR's early days, Ard didn't get rich racing. His three seasons netted $378,765, and Ard got only 25 percent of it. He also was responsible for paying his crew and their food and lodging expenses on the road.

``Them boys don't know what it's all about,'' Ard said. ``Shoot, I used to build my cars, haul 'em to the race track, race 'em, then haul 'em back home. Now all they do is show up and sit in a hauler until it's time to get in the car, then they go out on the race track and make a boatload of money along the way.

``I'd like to go racing again like that.''

Ard hasn't raced since suffering severe head trauma in a 1984 accident at North Carolina Speedway. He had to learn how to walk and talk and feed himself, and did much of his therapy on an old sawdust pile near the woods behind his house.

``That's where I learned how to walk again, I'd run up and down that sawdust pile because if I fell, it didn't hurt,'' he said. ``I about wore that sawdust pile out.''

Before the accident, Ard seemingly had the perfect life. A job as a Ford mechanic and a four-year Air Force stint gave him the financial security to quit the 9-to-5 grind and focus strictly on racing.

Sam Ard and his wife Jo pose for a family photo with their dog "Putt Putt" at home, Thursday, Jan. 11, 2007, in Pamplico, S.C. Unlike veterans of other sports, Sam Ard has no pension to fall back on.
AP - Feb 6, 1:54 pm EST
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In his early 40s, he had enough money put away for all four children to attend college and had the talent for a successful NASCAR career.

It ended the moment he hit the wall at Rockingham.

Race car drivers had a hard time getting insurance back then, and car owner Howard Thomas wasn't on the hook for anything. NASCAR covered all of Ard's medical bills, but he never again had a consistent income.

First, the Ards used the college funds to pay everyday living expenses. Then they went into debt.

Ard tried to run his own race team, but with so-so results.

``I hear people all the time say Sammy wasn't right, he didn't know what he was doing,'' Jo Ard said. ``Of course he wasn't right. He had major head trauma; his brain was broken. He was never going to be right again.''

Now Ard spends most of his days sitting in the recliner next to the front window of his trailer. He watches NASCAR -- Dale Jr. is his favorite -- and spends a lot of time with his beloved dog, Putt-Putt, a fiercely protective mix of boxer and pit bull.

Although Ard can remember details from his career -- like beating the late Dale Earnhardt to the finish at Charlotte Motor Speedway while Earnhardt Jr. was at the track celebrating his 9th birthday -- Jo can't send him to the grocery store without an explicit list. Even then, she has to cross her fingers and hope he hasn't forgotten where he put the list.

With a short Busch career and only one Cup start, Sam Ard never was considered one of NASCAR's superstars.

But his three seasons as a full-time racer were stellar. He finished second in the 1982 Busch standings and then won consecutive championships in 1983 and 1984. He earned his first title by winning 10 races -- a record that stands today.

Harvick furiously chased Ard's record last season. He fell one win short, but brought attention to Ard's plight in the process.

After the Ards wrote NASCAR asking for $24,000 to help pay off their trailer, NASCAR and Richmond International Raceway held an auction that raised $36,000 before taxes ate up a chunk of the money.

But Harvick, who has never met Ard but knows about his legacy because his wife, DeLana, grew up rooting for him, couldn't shake the need to do more. So he got together with Earnhardt Jr. to raise money from other drivers. Neither told Ard they were responsible -- even after anonymously dropping ``a good amount'' of money into the Sam Ard Care Fund.

``You look at a lot of these guys who have raced and made our sport what it is today, and they don't have anything,'' Harvick said. ``We are reaping the benefits from their aches and pains, the things that they did several years ago, and it's really not fair to leave them hanging. It just kind of rubs me the wrong way.''

A lot of drivers feel a responsibility to the men who came before them and would welcome a system to honor and aid them.

``Jack Ingram, Sam Ard, Bobby Allison -- those guys created an excitement about our sport that has made it wonderful, and I think we have to be careful as a generation to make sure we don't forget that,'' said Jeff Burton. ``One of the things that I think should fall on the shoulders of all the current drivers is that we need to leave the sport better than it was when we got here. Because they damn sure did.''