NFLDC New Mock Draft

[Patler]

You know me Patler; I want to win a Super Bowl before Favre retires. I figure he's here two more years so they have time to position themselves to do that with the right moves.

That's where we differ. I could not care less who is on the team the next time GB wins a Super Bowl, but I do want them to do it soon. If Favre retires in 2008, and they win it. Great!

Favre has his Super Bowl, and quite honestly did not lead the team the way he should have during recent playoffs. I know, I know, the teams weren't great, there were some questionable coaching decisions, etc., etc. However, teams with weak rosters have often gone deep in the playoffs, and with a HOF QB, you would think he could have pulled one out here or there in the playoffs.

Favre has had his opportunities. If we win another while he is still here......Wonderful!
If we win another after he leaves.......just as wonderful!

I would feel different if he had never won one, but he has.

[Bretsky]

You know me Patler; I want to win a Super Bowl before Favre retires. I figure he's here two more years so they have time to position themselves to do that with the right moves.

That's where we differ. I could not care less who is on the team the next time GB wins a Super Bowl, but I do want them to do it soon. If Favre retires in 2008, and they win it. Great!

Favre has his Super Bowl, and quite honestly did not lead the team the way he should have during recent playoffs. I know, I know, the teams weren't great, there were some questionable coaching decisions, etc., etc. However, teams with weak rosters have often gone deep in the playoffs, and with a HOF QB, you would think he could have pulled one out here or there in the playoffs.

Favre has had his opportunities. If we win another while he is still here......Wonderful!
If we win another after he leaves.......just as wonderful!

I would feel different if he had never won one, but he has.

I'm not at all confident we won't take a solid step back when he leaves so my view is to do it now. And you are right in that's where we differ. It's why you give TT a ton of credit for last year, and I give him credit but still wonder why we didn't try to get Will Weatherspoon and maybe even Chris Hope in here when we had the space to do it. I'm all about instant gratification. If I have to sacrifice a some hard times for another title I'm more than fine with that.

Cheers,
B

[RashanGary]

This is adding on to Bretsky and Patlers conversation if ya'll don't mind.


None of us can really control who drops. I believe FA's are for patching holes and the draft is for being oppertunistic and building the core of your team with the BPA's every year. Overtime, I believe that taking the best player every pick every draft will build your core with the "best players" as opposed to losing value and having guys that should have gone later but you "needed" him. Briefly summarized; team of the "second or third best players"

Each progressive higher pick has more value than the last. I believe that constantly taking the best will result in a higher level of talent. I don't think it's always a cluster. I think often times, the best player isnt' the player you need most.

Conversly, I belive that FA is what it is and the market is set. You overpay for whoever you get, so it's not like your losing value by taking one over another but rather just taking what you need for the inflated market price. If you had a few preceeding good drafts, there shouldnt' be too much of a need for FA, but if you had MS as GM for 3-4 years and your team is stripped, you might have to jump in and get your feet wet. This is where you fill your holes. If we have a need, this is wehre it should be had; very sparingly I mgiht add becasue while player A might be better than player B, Player A mgiht not be porportionatly better than player B in relation to their respective salarys. In short; you rarely get a steal in FA. At best, you don't get burned like with Woodson and Picket. Not GREAT but a realief is the best we could have hoped for.

Take the best players. If it's Lynch, great. I like Nelson and Hall, but I know about as much as everyother regular fan here. NOT MUCH.

[RashanGary]

This whole conversation sort of leads into why I believe in Thompsons approach so much. The reason being is; not every GM takes the best player. Many are trying to save their jobs, trying to build a team a certain way and sometimes instead of taking the best talent; they let him slide. Sometimes this desperation to fill a hole or build a certain way causes teams to offer more than what a player is worht to move up.

The fundemental approach is basically being oppertunistic and open to what the draft brings. To prepare for anything and cover your bases as something that is not expected could arise like the 42nd player on yoru board dropping to your 76 slot in the third round adn while he is a CB and you have a bunch, his name might be Mike McKeinzie and you think he was alot better than where he is and you take him. This story is inteded as an example of what might happen, not something that acctually did BTW. But anyway, if you didn't need CB's, you might not have scouted him and you might not have known that he was as good as he is and you might have missed him.

There are multiple examples of being oppertunistic and open to anything in how a team got a steal or had a great draft class, but I belive you'll find alot more oppertunist GM's succeed than desperate, get htis and that, guys.

[Patler]

You know me Patler; I want to win a Super Bowl before Favre retires. I figure he's here two more years so they have time to position themselves to do that with the right moves.

That's where we differ. I could not care less who is on the team the next time GB wins a Super Bowl, but I do want them to do it soon. If Favre retires in 2008, and they win it. Great!

Favre has his Super Bowl, and quite honestly did not lead the team the way he should have during recent playoffs. I know, I know, the teams weren't great, there were some questionable coaching decisions, etc., etc. However, teams with weak rosters have often gone deep in the playoffs, and with a HOF QB, you would think he could have pulled one out here or there in the playoffs.

Favre has had his opportunities. If we win another while he is still here......Wonderful!
If we win another after he leaves.......just as wonderful!

I would feel different if he had never won one, but he has.

I'm not at all confident we won't take a solid step back when he leaves so my view is to do it now. And you are right in that's where we differ. It's why you give TT a ton of credit for last year, and I give him credit but still wonder why we didn't try to get Will Weatherspoon and maybe even Chris Hope in here when we had the space to do it. I'm all about instant gratification. If I have to sacrifice a some hard times for another title I'm more than fine with that.

Cheers,
B

Now this is where I will sound blasphemous.

I think the Favre window is already closed. I do not think the team can be built up fast enough and well enough to makeup for the inevitable Favre mistakes, and I haven't seen Favre adapt well enough to his declining skills to not make those mistakes.

So my theory is that you go one rebuilding your team with no regard to Favre, and if you get far enough, or he gets patient enough, it might still happen while he is here.

That doesn't mean I think he should retire, or that Rodgers should take over. I just do not think you can build on Favre anymore. That is the way Denver approached it, but luckily for them Elway adapted to being an older QB, and was a very good one. Favre might still too. He seemed to last year, but every now and then it got the best of him. Perhaps another off-season will help.

[Bretsky]

This is adding on to Bretsky and Patlers conversation if ya'll don't mind.


None of us can really control who drops. I believe FA's are for patching holes and the draft is for being oppertunistic and building the core of your team with the BPA's every year. Overtime, I believe that taking the best player every pick every draft will build your core with the "best players" as opposed to losing value and having guys that should have gone later but you "needed" him. Briefly summarized; team of the "second or third best players"

Each progressive higher pick has more value than the last. I believe that constantly taking the best will result in a higher level of talent. I don't think it's always a cluster. I think often times, the best player isnt' the player you need most.

Conversly, I belive that FA is what it is and the market is set. You overpay for whoever you get, so it's not like your losing value by taking one over another but rather just taking what you need for the inflated market price. If you had a few preceeding good drafts, there shouldnt' be too much of a need for FA, but if you had MS as GM for 3-4 years and your team is stripped, you might have to jump in and get your feet wet. This is where you fill your holes. If we have a need, this is wehre it should be had; very sparingly I mgiht add becasue while player A might be better than player B, Player A mgiht not be porportionatly better than player B in relation to their respective salarys. In short; you rarely get a steal in FA. At best, you don't get burned like with Woodson and Picket. Not GREAT but a realief is the best we could have hoped for.

Take the best players. If it's Lynch, great. I like Nelson and Hall, but I know about as much as everyother regular fan here. NOT MUCH.

Great points; agree with everything in here.

[Bretsky]

This whole conversation sort of leads into why I believe in Thompsons approach so much. The reason being is; not every GM takes the best player. Many are trying to save their jobs, trying to build a team a certain way and sometimes instead of taking the best talent; they let him slide. Sometimes this desperation to fill a hole or build a certain way causes teams to offer more than what a player is worht to move up.

The fundemental approach is basically being oppertunistic and open to what the draft brings. To prepare for anything and cover your bases as something that is not expected could arise like the 42nd player on yoru board dropping to your 76 slot in the third round adn while he is a CB and you have a bunch, his name might be Mike McKeinzie and you think he was alot better than where he is and you take him. This story is inteded as an example of what might happen, not something that acctually did BTW. But anyway, if you didn't need CB's, you might not have scouted him and you might not have known that he was as good as he is and you might have missed him.

There are multiple examples of being oppertunistic and open to anything in how a team got a steal or had a great draft class, but I belive you'll find alot more oppertunist GM's succeed than desperate, get htis and that, guys.

I'll say this; up to this point you've been spot on in reading TT. I never liked the Rodgers pick............in fact.......... neither of them (Aaron or Cory), but at this point we can only be happy with TT's overall drafts. It appears he had a boomer in 2006.

As for free agency, I hope he's more aggressive this year because I have a feeling the good players are going to come off the free agent list fast. The ones that are left.

[Bretsky]

You know me Patler; I want to win a Super Bowl before Favre retires. I figure he's here two more years so they have time to position themselves to do that with the right moves.

That's where we differ. I could not care less who is on the team the next time GB wins a Super Bowl, but I do want them to do it soon. If Favre retires in 2008, and they win it. Great!

Favre has his Super Bowl, and quite honestly did not lead the team the way he should have during recent playoffs. I know, I know, the teams weren't great, there were some questionable coaching decisions, etc., etc. However, teams with weak rosters have often gone deep in the playoffs, and with a HOF QB, you would think he could have pulled one out here or there in the playoffs.

Favre has had his opportunities. If we win another while he is still here......Wonderful!
If we win another after he leaves.......just as wonderful!

I would feel different if he had never won one, but he has.

I'm not at all confident we won't take a solid step back when he leaves so my view is to do it now. And you are right in that's where we differ. It's why you give TT a ton of credit for last year, and I give him credit but still wonder why we didn't try to get Will Weatherspoon and maybe even Chris Hope in here when we had the space to do it. I'm all about instant gratification. If I have to sacrifice a some hard times for another title I'm more than fine with that.

Cheers,
B

Now this is where I will sound blasphemous.

I think the Favre window is already closed. I do not think the team can be built up fast enough and well enough to makeup for the inevitable Favre mistakes, and I haven't seen Favre adapt well enough to his declining skills to not make those mistakes.

So my theory is that you go one rebuilding your team with no regard to Favre, and if you get far enough, or he gets patient enough, it might still happen while he is here.

That doesn't mean I think he should retire, or that Rodgers should take over. I just do not think you can build on Favre anymore. That is the way Denver approached it, but luckily for them Elway adapted to being an older QB, and was a very good one. Favre might still too. He seemed to last year, but every now and then it got the best of him. Perhaps another off-season will help.

I still believe we can win a Super Bowl with Brett Favre.

I think last year he was a smarter QB and that can continue to improve with the solid coaching he is receiving. I know he still has the 2-3 clunkers per year, but he seems to be developing into a smarter QB. Of course, his job would be easier if we had three bodies with the ability to get open somewhat consistently. Otherwise, we just have to hope the clunkers don't happen come playoff time.

[RashanGary]

I'm more for FA's now than I have been in the past, but the only thing about FA is much like TT says "it's dangerous waters". The best you can hope for is a sigh of relief considering the $$ you pay. I'm all for a Woodson level talent and a Pickett level guy, but keep in mind if we get them, they'll be very pricy and will never out perform those deals. Best case is they earn thier check but more likely its anywhere from a slight disappointment to a complete injury ruined salary cap wasting bust.

I just think FA has to be approached with a very healhty understanding of the commitment or $$ that is involved. Sometimes you have to jump in and this off seaosn, I think might be one of them, but I wouldnt' expect it to be over the top and I, personally, would hope it's not.

We differ a little on this B, and I see where your coming from and it even worked out for us last season, but if you think about it; the best that can happen is just OK in relation to the salary and the worste is a collosal cap damaging bust. Just not enough reward to go along with the risk IMO.


We'll see how it pans out. The best case is guys on our roster steppign up and having a big draft class with a solid but not over the top FA class IMO.

[woodbuck27]

I HOPE Lynch IS gone before the Packers pick.
Don't want him at all.
Don't want any runningback at #16.

I agree and, honestly, I think he will be a combine warrior and get picked up earlier than #16.

I feel sorry for whoever falls for the smoke and mirror act that is Marshawn Lynch.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AjW0tGtzBzAPWbwYdqHBv_ZDubYF?slug=insidedishfreeagentrhode&prov=tsn&type=lgns

A woman who described herself as a former girlfriend accused California RB Marshawn Lynch of slapping, choking and sexually assaulting her. Lynch won't be charged because of a lack of evidence, but that doesn't mean his draft stock won't be affected.

Lynch looked like a sure first-round pick and entered the draft with a year of eligibility remaining. But the red flag is up on this gifted runner.

Teams are doing extra homework to determine whether they are comfortable with Lynch's character. It is possible he could fall out of the first round. . . .

on another note:

No player has enhanced his draft stock in recent weeks more than Louisville's Amobi Okoye.

He was the most dominant defensive lineman during Senior Bowl practices, where he showed superior quickness and range. Okoye, who is only 19 and already has a degree in psychology, could be chosen between the 10th and 20th selections in the first round. ...

[AtlPackFan]

Just curious guys:

Would you rather have a few non packer people and end up winning the super bowl?

Or

Have a nice well behaved team and just be average?

What's to say you can't have both???

[Cheesehead Craig]

I'd rather have Weddle than Merriweather at Safety. If Miller was available, I'd take him instead (assuming no FA TE were signed).

[BallHawk]

I HOPE Lynch IS gone before the Packers pick.
Don't want him at all.
Don't want any runningback at #16.

I agree and, honestly, I think he will be a combine warrior and get picked up earlier than #16.

I feel sorry for whoever falls for the smoke and mirror act that is Marshawn Lynch.

Why do you dislike Lynch so much ? How many games have you watched him play in college ? Just curious. I've only seen him play a couple games and each time he really stood out in the game to me.

During the season I really didn't follow Cal, except just casual browsing. However, when the draft talk started heating up, Marshawn Lynch came up in almost every single topic, so I figured, rather than basing my opinion of highlight reels and hype, I should actually figure out what Lynch is really like. I have a good friend who's dad is a die-hard Golden Bear fan, die-hard really doesn't do him justice, to be honest. Anyway, his dad had all the Cal games taped so I got him to burn me the games so I could watch them myself. I will say, I haven't watched all of them, I've only watched up to the Washington game. He does have some talent, but if you watch every single play of him, not just the plays they want you to see, he is not #16 talent. Would I be fine with him in the 2nd round? Maybe. However, there are better backs to be had.

[PackerPro42]

I myself have watched every Cal game this season because I think that Lynch is going to be special. Like you said, Lynch was not spectacular every single down, that can be said about anyone, but by no means was he bad. In fact he was very impressive if not spectacular most of the time. While splitting carries with another back he still racked up over 1300 yards for 11 TD's and managed to catch 34 passes for 4 TD's. While watching him go through the season with minor injuries I still was able to see that he has amazing cut back ability, great hands for a RB, awesome vision, he's certainly able to run guys over if he has to, and he's a great pass blocker. I know you don't like the guy, mainly because I do, and I know you " <3" Kenny Irons, but you can't look over the fact that he's a perfect fit for our system while Kenny Irons is certainly not.

[BallHawk]

. I know you don't like the guy, mainly because I do,

That has absolutely nothing to do with it.