Combine

[Deputy Nutz]

This is why Youtube scouting is just so unreliable these days, since you're mostly going to get highlight reels (and everybody looks good on their highlight reels), and even if you get full games that's generally the television broadcast which is really bad at showing you useful information.

I mean, everybody should feel good about watching guys on youtube and seeing what they like, but you're never going to see enough to really get a complete picture on the guy. The only people who really do thorough and useful tape study are actually employed by the NFL (since they're the only ones who can get the 22s.)

So I have no idea if Bruce Irvin can play the run, but I'm pretty sure that Ted Thompson, Eliot Wolf, etc know. That's why I hate it when people imply they're smarter than professional scouts, the pros have access to so much more information than anybody else does.

What you say is true, but a few years ago we didn't even have Youtube to show us video of these prospects, we had to listen or read what others had to say about them. I try to recognize in the highlight film if it is a play were the defensive end steam rolls a running back to get the QB, or if it s a blown assignment. I try to see if the player is exploding off the ball, is first to engage the blocker, and how he controls the blocker to get to the QB. I also watch to see if the guy just heads up field or tries to run around blocks. There is very little on the running game, but looking for an edge player you want to see if he holds his responsiblities before rushing up field to kill the QB.

It is still a limited process but it is better than listening to the talking heads and forming your opinions around Mel Kiper.

[Deputy Nutz]

Well Bruce clearly has the speed to threaten the edge and some insane closing speed as well to make sacks happen but the guy looks physical too, I mean he was playing DE in a 3-3-5 base D at WV. The dude can shed a tackle and beat anyone to the outside, I don't think he's a major concern against the run at this point... but even if he were, a situational pass rusher is arguably EXACTLY what we need and with where Bruce is projected to go I'd be thrilled for a KGB type player out of him. Hell, Brad Jones does a fine job in the 3-4, we need a solid 4th pass rusher in the 2-4 and 3-3 on passing situations. That said, his 3-cone and SS suggest the guy has the change of direction skills to cover. Dude's a former wideout for christsakes.

I don't even know if he played high school football. Brad Jones sucked balls the last 3 years in Green Bay, and the Packers' run defense was shit on the opposite side of Clay Mathews because Walden had no feel, and couldn't hold his responsibilities, so don't tell me the Packers don't need a quality OLB that can remember and execute their responsiblities. Bruce Irvin is a RISK, that is all I am saying, he as great get off and because of his speed he could line up outside the tackle box and get the edge on college linemen. His speed should translate to the next level, but how fast is he going to acquire other pass rushing techniques? How fast is he going to be able to acquire coverage techniques and skills? How is he going to handle the run responsibilities at the next level? All things that were not proven at the combine, or on the limited youtube film that I watched on this guy. Great athlete he jumps off on the film, but I am not questioning his athletic ability.

[Cheesehead Craig]

DE Cam Johnson. Good change of direction, comes off the ball really well, doesn't get confused by misdirection. Needs to stay lower when engaging with offensive linemen, needs a better punch and extention. Looked to tire out at the end of the game. Looks like an olb to me, from this small sample I think he would be a good fit for the Packers.

Are you concerned at all about his weight? 270 is a bit on the high side.

[Deputy Nutz]

I think he is smart coming into the combine at that weight, because he can appeal to both 3-4 teams and 4-3 teams. What I saw on the film that SB posted he had good quickness at and around the line of scrimmage, took good angles, and decent agility. I am sure he would lose 10-15 pounds if needed to play more effectively at OLB.

[Lurker64]

Are you concerned at all about his weight? 270 is a bit on the high side.

It's probably easier for OLB conversion prospects to lose weight than to gain it. But "weight" is actually kind of irrelevant next to "can he play." I mean, the Steelers list Woodley at 265 and Worilds at 262.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Good points, thanks guys.

[wist43]

I liked what I saw of Irvin and Robinson in those clips. Didn't like what I saw there of Ingram at all... his first step seemed pedestrian, he struggled to disengage, isn't long, and didn't seem explosive - I guess that would make him a perfect fit for GB's front seven... he'd fit right in

No matter how you slice it , to get past the likes of New Orleans and the Giants, we have to improve on defense - and that has to begin with an infusion of talent in the front 7.

TT's philosphy says that 3rd and 4th year developmental players should be stepping in, and I agree with that approach to whatever extent. Funny thing happened on the way to the forum though - none of the guys he has brought in can play. As I've said, we have only 2 legit front 7 guys (Matthews and Raji); Pickett, Hawk, and Bishop are all NFL calibur players, but are all average; the rest are JAG's and need to be replaced.

Neal stunk; Wilson and Wynn are below average players; Jones, Zombo, Walden, and Francois have all proven they can't play.

TT has to face up to reality and admit that he can't even field an NFL calibur front 7. He bit the bullet in '09 and spent early picks on Raji and Matthews, I guess he figured those 2 guys would be the core he could build around, and after that scrounging around at Hooters looking for talent was all he needed to do. He invested a 2nd round pick in Neal, and even though I had high hopes for him too, he looked awful last year, and might very well be a bust.

After the switch to the 3-4, TT said he would begin to transition to 3-4 body types, and retrofit the defense over the course of a few years... I guess I can't say he hasn't attempted to do that - what I can say is that his efforts have been an abysmal failure.

Offense is great though

[packrulz]

This guy likes Ingram, *Whitney Mercilus, Andre Branch, Shea McClellin, & Mychal Kendricks (ILB). He thinks Mark Barron (safety) will drop because of his hernia surgery and Poe's great workout. CB's mentioned are *Stephon Gilmore & Trumaine Johnson (who could be moved to safety).
Video: http://www.packers.com/media-center/...7-c93dd9267a21

[Bretsky]

IMO Poe is off the board in the top 20

[wist43]

This guy likes Ingram, *Whitney Mercilus, Andre Branch, Shea McClellin, & Mychal Kendricks (ILB). He thinks Mark Barron (safety) will drop because of his hernia surgery and Poe's great workout. CB's mentioned are *Stephon Gilmore & Trumaine Johnson (who could be moved to safety).
Video: http://www.packers.com/media-center/...7-c93dd9267a21

I liked what I saw of Kendricks - but he's short, isn't a pass rusher at all unless he has a clean lane, and struggles to disengage. He needs to play in space and be protected by behemoths in front of him. That Packers don't really play that style - especially considering that Capers is running a 2-whatever a good amount of the time.

We desperately need front 7 help, but Kendricks being an ILB doesn't do much to improve us this year - he could certainly replace Hawk or Bishop at some point; but he's certainly not someone an opposing offense would have to account for.

As for those other guys... maybe they ran well, and performed agility drills well at the combine, but I wasn't impressed with what I saw on tape. All of them seemed pedestrian. None of them pressed the corner; none of them disengaged well... Mercilus and Branch both looked pretty content to play the dancing bear game when isolated one-on-one against Tackles that likely aren't NFL calibur.

I certainly don't want any of those guys in the first round.

[Pugger]

I don't know if I'd say Neal stunk, he was just not healthy and you can't expect a guy to play decently hobbling. He should have been put on IR but with those stiffs Wilson and Wynn as alternatives I suppose I can't blame Capers and company for holding out hope for Neal to come around last season.

[wist43]

I don't know if I'd say Neal stunk, he was just not healthy and you can't expect a guy to play decently hobbling. He should have been put on IR but with those stiffs Wilson and Wynn as alternatives I suppose I can't blame Capers and company for holding out hope for Neal to come around last season.

I still have hope for Neal... I like what I saw of him before the injury; but there's no way to sugar coat what he was last year, he was nothing short of awful. He shouldn't have even been on the field. I agree, they should have just IR'd him.

Guy will be coming back, and he is a big body - he certainly can't be any worse than Wilson or Wynn, but that isn't saying much.

[swede]

Having laid my own peepers on Neal pre-"I hurt myself doing a drill,"and having observed the results of his "recovery" from the inexplicable owie, I am prepared to lay down a very gloomy forecast calling for Harrell-like disappointment. His body is awesome, but so too is a California redwood which also tends to snap when bent.

[swede]

Having laid my own peepers on Neal pre-"I hurt myself doing a drill,"and having observed the results of his "recovery" from the inexplicable owie, I am prepared to lay down a very gloomy forecast calling for Harrell-like disappointment. His body is awesome, but so too is a California redwood which also tends to snap when bent.

Nice job, swede.

Now you're gloomier than Wist.

[Fritz]

Another way to look at it is who from the current team would you like trimmed away?

For me, it's Wilson and Wynn and maybe Howard Green, Eric Walden and Frank Zombo, and pat Lee.

So let's draft us about six defensive players to compete for those jobs. And Ted - please, not all fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh rounders and street free agents, okay?

That so-and-so is likely to draft a wide receiver in the first round. Sigh. But then again, in three years maybe we'll all be raving about the guy.