Vikings brass has lost their minds...

[esoxx]

I don't think the Vikings make the playoffs without making the Jared Allen trade. What an impact he had on that defense.
The Vikings have actually hit nicely on some FA's, including Pat Williams, Winfield, Longwell, Leber, and Hutchinson.

[imscott72]

Re: Vikings brass has lost their minds...

Vikings tight end Visanthe Shiancoe's new contract pays $18.2 million over five years. It includes $7 million in guarantees.

Insanity. He has 35 total receptions in four seasons and has averaged 7.2 yards-per-catch. Coach Brad Childress must see something that we and the NFC East haven't. He'll clearly be Minnesota's starter in 2007.
Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

After a rough first year the dudes been outstanding. I thought it was a mistake last year but he gets some nice mismatches.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/104-12262008-1643731.html

"We are really happy for him," Giants coach Tom Coughlin said. "He is a guy that had outstanding talent and abilities. ... When he had an opportunity to be the number one guy and have some things focused around him, well, he has obviously responded."

With 582 yards receiving entering Sunday's regular season finale against the Giants, Shiancoe is fourth among NFC tight ends. He's third in the NFL with seven scores, behind Kansas City's Tony Gonzalez and San Diego's Antonio Gates , the gold standards at this position over the past decade.

Dusting off an old thread eh? Yeah in hindsight the signing turned out good, but at the time even you thought it was too much. Like esoxx said though, the Allen trade was huge for that team and put them over the top imo.

[Noodle]

Re: Vikings brass has lost their minds...

Dusting off an old thread eh? Yeah in hindsight the signing turned out good, but at the time even you thought it was too much. Like esoxx said though, the Allen trade was huge for that team and put them over the top imo.

That's the problem with FA. I bet nearly everyone on this board would have said the Vikes were idiots for paying what they did for Allen.

This attitude has always made me scratch my head -- the goal is to win, right, it's not to see who has the most cap room at the end of the year.

[Zool]

Re: Vikings brass has lost their minds...

Dusting off an old thread eh? Yeah in hindsight the signing turned out good, but at the time even you thought it was too much. Like esoxx said though, the Allen trade was huge for that team and put them over the top imo.

That's the problem with FA. I bet nearly everyone on this board would have said the Vikes were idiots for paying what they did for Allen.

This attitude has always made me scratch my head -- the goal is to win, right, it's not to see who has the most cap room at the end of the year.

The difference is, when you swing big in a trade like this, you can lose even bigger. This wasnt a FA pickup at all. Viking fans have to be happy this wasnt Hershel Walker redux.

Also you might want to check the Packers cap room at the end of the last 4 years.

[Bretsky]

I don't think the Vikings make the playoffs without making the Jared Allen trade. What an impact he had on that defense.
The Vikings have actually hit nicely on some FA's, including Pat Williams, Winfield, Longwell, Leber, and Hutchinson.

free agency

didn't we do that thing three years ago

[Noodle]

Yeah, yeah, ya sackless pedant, I know the Allen deal was a trade, but the same thinking applies -- we are quick here to jump on any team for "overpaying," whether in draft picks (trade) or in cash (FA).

The comment "but you could lose" fits perfectly in the TT regime. Is this really the kind of thing you want on your tombstone?

Why risk to be great when you can be middle of the pack -- yeah, I could see Lombardi or Starr getting behind that.

But at least we have lots of cap room (we do) and draft picks (want to argue about that?).

[Zool]

Yeah, yeah, ya sackless pedant, I know the Allen deal was a trade, but the same thinking applies -- we are quick here to jump on any team for "overpaying," whether in draft picks (trade) or in cash (FA).

The comment "but you could lose" fits perfectly in the TT regime. Is this really the kind of thing you want on your tombstone?

Why risk to be great when you can be middle of the pack -- yeah, I could see Lombardi or Starr getting behind that.

But at least we have lots of cap room (we do) and draft picks (want to argue about that?).

Without the actual numbers in front of me, we have less than 800k every year leftover. I'm not saying you dont play in FA, but as far as fans are concerned, front office people are screwed no matter what they do. If they go for broke, some fans call them stupid. If they play conservative some fans call them stupid.

Thankfully they never listed to armchair GM's who would be lost from day 1 in the job and shitting their pants at the pressure.

[Noodle]

Actually, Zool, I agree with you that GMs are in an impossible position. I'd like us to be a little more forgiving about chances taken that didn't work out. I never cracked on Sherman for signing Joe Johnson. If it had worked, there's a good chance the Packers would have had an SB shot.

So I promise, if TT drops some coin or draft picks on an FA/trade, you won't hear one word of complaint from me.

Oh, and about the cap room, I think the Pack will end up about $7 mil under this year. Check out http://cappage.timesfour.com/.

[Bretsky]

Yeah, yeah, ya sackless pedant, I know the Allen deal was a trade, but the same thinking applies -- we are quick here to jump on any team for "overpaying," whether in draft picks (trade) or in cash (FA).

The comment "but you could lose" fits perfectly in the TT regime. Is this really the kind of thing you want on your tombstone?

Why risk to be great when you can be middle of the pack -- yeah, I could see Lombardi or Starr getting behind that.

But at least we have lots of cap room (we do) and draft picks (want to argue about that?).

Without the actual numbers in front of me, we have less than 800k every year leftover. I'm not saying you dont play in FA, but as far as fans are concerned, front office people are screwed no matter what they do. If they go for broke, some fans call them stupid. If they play conservative some fans call them stupid.

Thankfully they never listed to armchair GM's who would be lost from day 1 in the job and shitting their pants at the pressure.

Noodle hits it on the head of the "you could lose" or "overpay" fits right into any the TT regime so far

As Patler has pointed out, GM's can push money forward to the next season with loopholes and TT is a master o fit.

We normally enter the season with a shitload of Cap space before a frontload or two occur followed by some cap manipulation.

So Noodle is correct if he's saying we often go into each year with a load of cap space and a TT follower will be quick to point out it always gets used.......but often leave out part of it is finding loopholes to use it so you have more next year.........and then again next year..........and then again next year

[BZnDallas]

this may sound a bit absurd (sp?) and i might not explain it the way i'm thinking it, but with the manipulation of the cap space that TT does and since he doesn't spend all of the money is it possible that he is trying to save some of that money (not cap space but actual $) for when the nfl has the un-capped years of play?... i guess what i'm trying to say is since the organization is not spending all the money, even though it may be available, can he bank some and wait until there is no cap?...

does that make any sense?

[Bretsky]

this may sound a bit absurd (sp?) and i might not explain it the way i'm thinking it, but with the manipulation of the cap space that TT does and since he doesn't spend all of the money is it possible that he is trying to save some of that money (not cap space but actual $) for when the nfl has the un-capped years of play?... i guess what i'm trying to say is since the organization is not spending all the money, even though it may be available, can he bank some and wait until there is no cap?...

does that make any sense?

He can't push it years ahead; a good portion of the time he tries to extend contracts and count a big chunk in the current year's cap. For instance, this year we extended AROD and since going into the year we didn't have close the cap spent he structured the deal so a lot of it would hit this year's cap. If you are thinking he's going conservative for the long term interest that might be. But he does usually end up spending about all of it

[Noodle]

I read BZ as saying that maybe TT isn't really worried about cap space as much as he's worried about cash on hand, which he'll need a ton of in case we go to a capless world.

In a cap world, saving money would not make sense, given revenue sharing and the Pack's revenue streams. If we go capless, then any nickles and dimes that TT may have saved won't be near enough to save us.

It's an interesting question. I really think that TT is simply conservative and hates, and I mean HATES, the thought of other people thinking he spent too much money or draft picks on a guy. It's not like he never ponies up -- he has, a number of times, but he does not come with overwhelming force.

[Partial]

Not trying to stir anything up, but this thread makes me think of A-Rods big contract. Hopefully they get their money's worth like the Vikes have outta Shianco.

[BZnDallas]

thanx noodle, thats what i was trying to get across... but i think it is more than nickles and dimes... i mean millions here and millions there is better than nothing... and with lambeau being redone that should help... if it gets down to it the pack could always sell those stock certificates like they did a number of years ago which always stay the same no matter what the economy does... just a way of getting more money... who knows!...lol... just one mans opinion

[HarveyWallbangers]

Shiancoe was a bust last year and the early part of this season, but he's played really well the second half of this year. Having AP opens things up for a guy like Shiancoe, and he's taking advantage.