Packer Rats FF League

[jack's smirking revenge]

I don't get it? You can't just flex your league depending on how many people decide to sign up. If you have run a league in the past, you know that it can't work that way. There are far too many variables. We're not talking about whether or not 10 or 12 people are in the league. We're talking about over 24 people--could range up to 48 or even higher if you keep participation open for the next couple months.

You know what? I think I'm just going to step away from this. You and I obviously don't see eye-to-eye on this point and this is your site, so you can do what you want.

tyler

[jack's smirking revenge]

I also ask that you axe this thread as I'm no longer organizing or involved (and I was the creator of this thread and initiator of the discussioN). You should start a new thread where you can restart your discussion.

tyler

[packrulz]

OK, knock it off! I was the commish on a 12 team league and it was tough becauce when your guy gets hurt there's no quality players on the FA board to help you out. Trades are possible but often don't pan out. I hear what Jack is saying about the commish needing final say, someone has to be the commish, & it's his decision, hopefully fair, is the last word. I had guys in my private league that were trading guys during their bye week to get them back the following week so I had to stop that. It definately isn't easy being a commish. We're talking a huge league here & I don't think it's possible. If you make the play-offs, what if you play against a team that has the same players as you?

[MJZiggy]

What about what Gureski was talking about?

[packrulz]

Maybe it doesn't matter if you have some of the same players because chances are your teams won't be identical anyway. I hope you don't give up on it Jack, I think gureski had a good plan, like mziggy said. It'll be fun.

[packrulz]

Or, too we could just run several seperate leagues and just have several different champs. That wouldn't be so bad. You could have a rookie league, a starter league, & a veteran league, all maybe 10-12 players hopefully, for each league. It could be done.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I agree with JSR. We dont need multiple league.

I dont want to be the same league as SkinBasket.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I agree too, I definently want no part of a huge league either. If you've ever run a league its just not even feasable, or fun, the whole experience is lost. When the talent pool gets over 10 teams deep in each league the talent gets extremely diluted, you can't always start a backup on a team, ala weeks 14-17 where backups are extremely important to win. It doesn't even seem like you could do inter-league playoffs either for the simple fact that everyone would be playing their own players in the playoffs and that wouldn't be very fun. For an example, on ESPN they have hundreds of thousands of leagues and all the top scoring teams out of those always have the same combo of core players. With only 24 teams in the playoffs the same players on each team wont be so bad, but with 48, you could see the two teams in the finals having the same core of guys, it's just not a fun game anymore when you make a huge league. I hope beginners realize that, and people who have done this before need to speak up on how anything bigger than 24 just simply wont be any fun or even practical.

[MadtownPacker]

I don't get it? You can't just flex your league depending on how many people decide to sign up. If you have run a league in the past, you know that it can't work that way. There are far too many variables. We're not talking about whether or not 10 or 12 people are in the league. We're talking about over 24 people--could range up to 48 or even higher if you keep participation open for the next couple months.

You know what? I think I'm just going to step away from this. You and I obviously don't see eye-to-eye on this point and this is your site, so you can do what you want.

tyler

Nice, just up and quit huh? Whatever man. Nothing has been set in stone but you are not willing to even consider other options. As for it being my site it's really not. Its what everyone else wants. Do it how you want or dont, I just want to play in the league.

[MadtownPacker]

I agree too, I definently want no part of a huge league either.

I understand what you are saying Tenn. I was just hoping there was a way those who didnt make the first 24 could still play. If it takes making a beginner/intermediate/pro leagues then thats what it takes. If it means only 24 temas then thats how its gonna be. No one wants to see hard feelings or anyone quiting. If thats gonna be the case then just stick to the original plan of 24.

Jack - Just do it how you where gonna do it. There no need for any fighting about this as its just for fun.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I see what your trying to do mad, i agree with it, you should try to include everybody, and I have seen total beginners win their first time so there's no reason to split it up experience wise. The only thing is I just don't know if there is a practical way to make a jump past 24, 48 might work, but i doubt anymore. I'm just adding my two cents from a couple of years of experience in being in really fun leagues, and some that fell apart.

[MadtownPacker]

I see what your trying to do mad, i agree with it, you should try to include everybody, and I have seen total beginners win their first time so there's no reason to split it up experience wise. The only thing is I just don't know if there is a practical way to make a jump past 24, 48 might work, but i doubt anymore. I'm just adding my two cents from a couple of years of experience in being in really fun leagues, and some that fell apart.

Thanks Tenn, your thought are highly valued as is the thought of all members of PR. When JSR gets back on he can take care of everything however he needs to so that the league works best.

[Homer Jay]

I'll just throw in my 2 cents worth and be done. 24 teams is already too many. 8 teams will end up with back up qbs who aren't even starters in the nfl. I'll be happy to watch as you guys fight it out . Have fun and good luck to all of you.

[gureski]

To answer a few questions and clarify some things...

Regarding my proposal... Each tier is made up of its own mini-league. So, you could have a 3 tiered League with 6 mini-leagues within the overall league. The bottom teir would have 3 seperate leagues that range from 8 to 10 to 12 owners per league. The middle tier would have 2 mini-leagues with the same ownership and the top tier is one single league.

Each mini-league has its own draft. Each Mini-League has it's own commissioner but since all leagues are run off the same rules and scoring system and such....the commissioner's job is not as extreme as it would be in a single league where there is only one person with say. You appoint a panel of owners to act as the board to sort out any issues that come up.

You're all still part of the same Super-League and you're all fighting for positioning towards next year and ultimately everyone is fighting to get to the top and win the whole thing so your'e still all part of the same league despite not all being in the same draft. And again, you can have as many or as few mini-leagues as you wish and each mini-league can have as many or as few owners per league as you wish. It's very flexable and that's a good thing in case there is a year where you don't meet your owner quota or maybe you have a year where you have more owners then expected.

Normally, those just starting out or learning start at the bottom tier so that they're facing the weakest competition while they learn the ropes. To answer Ziggy's question directly....yes, you could set it up that way right from the start. That's the beauty of this system...it has alot of flexability.

On the 8, 10, or 12 team league debate....what I can say is that I'm a rather serious FF guy. I run a 24 team league of my own and participate in numerous leagues throughout the season. What I know about the difference between the size of the leagues is that the lower the amount of owners the higher the 'luck' factor. The higher the amount of owners in a league and the higher the 'skill' factor. If you have only 8 owners in a league then there are more then enough players for everyone to have stars and injuries and free agent moves don't mean much because there is always something of quality sitting on the free agent wire. With talent all around you....you don't have to be skilled to win. YOu just have to be lucky.

Contrast that with a 12 team league where most of the name players are taken during the draft. Now, an owner will need to do a little research and go beyond the obvious in order to succeed. There is more skill and challenge involved and therefore...in my opinion...it's more fun and more rewarding to play. I have never...ever...seen a league run out of players. I even play in 14 team leagues and did a 16 team league one time and never did we run out of valid players. You don't run out of players....you just run out of names on your list. If you're willing to research a little...and most of us love football...you can find guys to use in FF on a weekly basis.

In the 24 team league I run, we split those 24 teams into 2 seperate 12 team conferences and hold a seperate draft for each league. Now, we're still one big league because our championship game pits the winner of each league against each other to determine our overall champion AND we play cross-conference games during the season where you end up playing someone from the other conference....someone from the other draft who potentially has 1 or more of the same players you have. So...it provides interesting twists and such.

I could go on but this is enough. All I can say is that there really is no need to fight about any of this. Let as many people play as want to. You can adjust the tiered league to the number of players you have. Heck, each mini-league doesn't even have to have the same number of players.

[gureski]

Another suggestion would be to have a 32 team draft and pick Team positions...ie... Team QB.... Team RB... Team WR and ect.... That way you don't worry about back ups and such and there are plenty of positions for all to pick from.

Again...there are so many solutions to the issues being raised. We can find something that works for everyone. Personally, I've always wanted to be part of a 32 team league like that. It would be really exciting.