Why not Doss or Engram?

[Partial]

at his point I'll take anything

See, B? That's a problem for me. I don't want anyone if they're not going to seriously improve the team. Especially if we're paying a ton of money for them. I don't want a free agent just to have one.

We must build through the draft, for there is no other way. Any free agent by default is overpriced. Nevermind the fact that they command high prices because they've typically been good players that have helped teams... That's not relevant.

WE, contrary to popular opinion, DO NOT need to win now. 2009 will be just fine. Ask the Seahawks....

And who might you propose to help get the team to the playoffs in 2007? Was it Adalius Thomas at the strong side linebacker position? Since we don't run a 3-4, that would be a huge waste of money. Was it Nate Clements to sit on the bench? What about Ahman Green? To beat up our local women and to sit on injured reserve meanwhile eating up valuable cap room for the next 4 years. Would it have been Eric Johnson who cannot stay healthy to save his life? Would it have been Daniel Graham, a blocking tight end who isn't a threat to catch the pass and is a worse blocker than our very own Bubba Franks? Was it Leonard Davis who doesn't fit our scheme? How about Eric Steinbach for 8 million a year only to put a promising Daryn Colledge on the bench? Was it Dante Stallworth, a person facing a possible suspension for drug usage? Drew Bennett, a guy who is too slow to play in the slot, yet not good enough to crack our starting lineup of wideouts? Perhaps it was Kevin Curtis, who despite having all the physical tools in the world has never put up good numbers and is vastly overpaid? Was it Ken Hamlin, who is a major injury concern who wasn't overly impressive this past year? Last time we tried to take a physical in-the-box safety and have them play centerfield it didn't really work out too well. Was it that you wanted an out-of-place 3-4 defender to be our SLB? I just don't understand.

Personally, the only player who would have even been worth it is Deon Grant. Otherwise, we have young, promising players on our roster in their spot, or we have someone who is very close in talent.

Free agency is really, really awesome. Tell that to Antwan Randall El who is a third receiver now for Washington. And Adam Archuletta and his biggest contract ever for a safety only to be a special teams only player. 6.5 mil per year for that. Whoo hoo.

Personally, I think we should pay all those guys and let 'em sit on the bench, or play them ahead of our young playmakers thus ruining the primes of their career.


Free Agency is for when you're a good team and need a few extra pieces. You don't build the foundation of your team through it. It's not the ice cream, or the hot chocolate, the bowl or the spoon, or the peanuts, its the cherry on top and nothing else. Since we have an empty bowl at this point, why the hell are you so adament about rushing to add the cherry? It'd bring in nice PR and get the Packers back in the news, but really all that you'd have is an empty bowl with one cherry in it.

[Partial]

But wasn't everyone here wanting Hamlin? He's still there. And Grffith? Him too. Stevens is still on the board. Half of them are gone, but half are still there.

I'd be elated with Hamlin too; but he'll go for free agency money as well IMO

B the avatar is great...

Also ive read on a few places that TT is "content" with Manuel. So im wondering if he will end up signing another Saftey.

Hamlin is alright but Grant is the guy he should have gone out and got. Hamlin is an identical player to manual. Slow guy who is servicable in coverage and excellent against the run.

[Merlin]

That wasn't my point either, Merlin. I only listed Stevens for 2 reasons. One is that I've read comments from people wanting us to get him, and two, he has a name people recognize and therefore tend to think we should get because they know who he is. I know that there are people that TT's been in contact with and I also know that when he finds what he thinks we need, he will sign him. I trust him to do that (like I have any other choice).

Yes, I know what your point was. I was just putting water on a potential fire. I agree that signing "Name Brand" players is never a guarantee. I didn't know who Pickett was and he turned out to be a younger Grady Jackson who didn't get injured. That was a good signing. I have also heard that TT is content with Manual and that scares the shit out of me. Content? Yeah, only if you are paying him the vet minimum to be a special teamer. Now that Woodson will be earning close to what he is worth this season I am happier we picked him up. I still find it hard to swallow that TT made that move for a player that hadn't produced in 2-3 years at that price. I don't trust all of his moves, especially the Green one. You have to know he didn't offer Green 5 Mil to stay and a longer contract. If he would have, Green would have stayed because he liked Green Bay. Letting David Martin go was a no brainer because the guy couldn't stay healthy for us. I will agree that when healthy he could be one of the best TEs in the game but that was only for what? 4-5 games a season for us?

I totally disagree with letting Henderson go. They should have made him a Tight End. He can block, he can catch and he is faster the Franks.

[Partial]

That wasn't my point either, Merlin. I only listed Stevens for 2 reasons. One is that I've read comments from people wanting us to get him, and two, he has a name people recognize and therefore tend to think we should get because they know who he is. I know that there are people that TT's been in contact with and I also know that when he finds what he thinks we need, he will sign him. I trust him to do that (like I have any other choice).

Yes, I know what your point was. I was just putting water on a potential fire. I agree that signing "Name Brand" players is never a guarantee. I didn't know who Pickett was and he turned out to be a younger Grady Jackson who didn't get injured. That was a good signing. I have also heard that TT is content with Manual and that scares the shit out of me. Content? Yeah, only if you are paying him the vet minimum to be a special teamer. Now that Woodson will be earning close to what he is worth this season I am happier we picked him up. I still find it hard to swallow that TT made that move for a player that hadn't produced in 2-3 years at that price. I don't trust all of his moves, especially the Green one. You have to know he didn't offer Green 5 Mil to stay and a longer contract. If he would have, Green would have stayed because he liked Green Bay. Letting David Martin go was a no brainer because the guy couldn't stay healthy for us. I will agree that when healthy he could be one of the best TEs in the game but that was only for what? 4-5 games a season for us?

I totally disagree with letting Henderson go. They should have made him a Tight End. He can block, he can catch and he is faster the Franks.

Even at 8 mil woodson looks like a steal compared to the inferior Nate Clements.

[retailguy]

I didn't say any of that, RG. I said I only want a player if he will necessarily make the team better at his position. Also, free agents tend to command high prices because of past performances. I don't give a rat's ass about past performance. TT proved your sarcasm wrong last season. The players he waited on turned out to be better than the one he rushed to sign right away, didn't they?

Isn't that an apples to oranges example? Manuel was not better than any other safety in free agency, but for some strange reason he likes him. I don't understand it. As to the other big names, I didn't advocate signing them, so I guess I don't understand your point.

I see this season as different from last season. Last season we needed core players, this year, not so much. There are players that can be had at fair prices, not every signed free agent is getting "big bucks". Holes could be plugged while new draftees "learn the ropes" but that is CLEARLY not the methodology. I do find that frustrating, as do others.

As to the other free agents, Woodson stepped in and started, as did Manuel with mixed results, and Pickett, but that's about it. The chances of finding another "Ryan Pickett" at RB aren't good, most of the guys you could expect to "step right in" and contribute are gone. That's not my opinion, that's pretty much the accepted reality. Could it happen? Sure. Will it? Odds are not in our favor. If the RB position struggles, doesn't the offense struggle right with it?

As to proving me wrong last year, I don't think an 8-8 record where we only beat one team with a winning record, and that happened in week 17, proves very much. I have serious questions that the Defense has improved as much as "advertised" by the people here in these forums. I do believe that had we kept Green, and added a TE and another WR the offense would have been "formidable" for sure, and quite possibly exceptional.

Without a solid RB, I don't think upgrades at either TE or WR will pay immediate dividends and believe today that with no changes, the offense will be "quite ordinary". Hope I'm wrong... but just don't see the vision, too much risk in my opinion. He's got some money to spend that might mitigate (Lower) that risk, and he's decided not to do that. So, we'll see. I'm just not on the bandwagon. At all.

[Partial]

I see you Lurking RG address ze post

[Merlin]

That wasn't my point either, Merlin. I only listed Stevens for 2 reasons. One is that I've read comments from people wanting us to get him, and two, he has a name people recognize and therefore tend to think we should get because they know who he is. I know that there are people that TT's been in contact with and I also know that when he finds what he thinks we need, he will sign him. I trust him to do that (like I have any other choice).

Yes, I know what your point was. I was just putting water on a potential fire. I agree that signing "Name Brand" players is never a guarantee. I didn't know who Pickett was and he turned out to be a younger Grady Jackson who didn't get injured. That was a good signing. I have also heard that TT is content with Manual and that scares the shit out of me. Content? Yeah, only if you are paying him the vet minimum to be a special teamer. Now that Woodson will be earning close to what he is worth this season I am happier we picked him up. I still find it hard to swallow that TT made that move for a player that hadn't produced in 2-3 years at that price. I don't trust all of his moves, especially the Green one. You have to know he didn't offer Green 5 Mil to stay and a longer contract. If he would have, Green would have stayed because he liked Green Bay. Letting David Martin go was a no brainer because the guy couldn't stay healthy for us. I will agree that when healthy he could be one of the best TEs in the game but that was only for what? 4-5 games a season for us?

I totally disagree with letting Henderson go. They should have made him a Tight End. He can block, he can catch and he is faster the Franks.

Even at 8 mil woodson looks like a steal compared to the inferior Nate Clements.

I agree but i believe that Woodson cost us something lie 10-11 mil the first year.

[MJZiggy]

My point was that when TT jumped right in and signed a player, the player he signed did not perform as well as those he waited to sign, and it's not about whether you were on board or your opinion of the players involved. Those that were the "leftovers" we picked up last year did fine.

Perhaps the RBs that "you would expect" to step in and start are gone, but what about the unexpected ones. And even if he doesn't, if teams don't account for the run ever, I can guarantee you Morency will put up huge numbers. This is still professional football and runningbacks still have to be accounted for especially when the coach says that he's committed to the run.

We have until August to find a TE and WR and RB this offseason. I'm certainly not going to panic about it now.

[Partial]

That wasn't my point either, Merlin. I only listed Stevens for 2 reasons. One is that I've read comments from people wanting us to get him, and two, he has a name people recognize and therefore tend to think we should get because they know who he is. I know that there are people that TT's been in contact with and I also know that when he finds what he thinks we need, he will sign him. I trust him to do that (like I have any other choice).

Yes, I know what your point was. I was just putting water on a potential fire. I agree that signing "Name Brand" players is never a guarantee. I didn't know who Pickett was and he turned out to be a younger Grady Jackson who didn't get injured. That was a good signing. I have also heard that TT is content with Manual and that scares the shit out of me. Content? Yeah, only if you are paying him the vet minimum to be a special teamer. Now that Woodson will be earning close to what he is worth this season I am happier we picked him up. I still find it hard to swallow that TT made that move for a player that hadn't produced in 2-3 years at that price. I don't trust all of his moves, especially the Green one. You have to know he didn't offer Green 5 Mil to stay and a longer contract. If he would have, Green would have stayed because he liked Green Bay. Letting David Martin go was a no brainer because the guy couldn't stay healthy for us. I will agree that when healthy he could be one of the best TEs in the game but that was only for what? 4-5 games a season for us?

I totally disagree with letting Henderson go. They should have made him a Tight End. He can block, he can catch and he is faster the Franks.

Even at 8 mil woodson looks like a steal compared to the inferior Nate Clements.

I agree but i believe that Woodson cost us something lie 10-11 mil the first year.

Correct. His original contract numbers with all options and totals were 7 years, 53 million. In actuality though, it was 6 years, 38 million. Now that he cost 10-11 million last year, its 5 years at 27-28 million. At a price of < 6 million per year, he is a steal from this point forth.

[Partial]

at his point I'll take anything

See, B? That's a problem for me. I don't want anyone if they're not going to seriously improve the team. Especially if we're paying a ton of money for them. I don't want a free agent just to have one.

We must build through the draft, for there is no other way. Any free agent by default is overpriced. Nevermind the fact that they command high prices because they've typically been good players that have helped teams... That's not relevant.

WE, contrary to popular opinion, DO NOT need to win now. 2009 will be just fine. Ask the Seahawks....

And who might you propose to help get the team to the playoffs in 2007? Was it Adalius Thomas at the strong side linebacker position? Since we don't run a 3-4, that would be a huge waste of money. Was it Nate Clements to sit on the bench? What about Ahman Green? To beat up our local women and to sit on injured reserve meanwhile eating up valuable cap room for the next 4 years. Would it have been Eric Johnson who cannot stay healthy to save his life? Would it have been Daniel Graham, a blocking tight end who isn't a threat to catch the pass and is a worse blocker than our very own Bubba Franks? Was it Leonard Davis who doesn't fit our scheme? How about Eric Steinbach for 8 million a year only to put a promising Daryn Colledge on the bench? Was it Dante Stallworth, a person facing a possible suspension for drug usage? Drew Bennett, a guy who is too slow to play in the slot, yet not good enough to crack our starting lineup of wideouts? Perhaps it was Kevin Curtis, who despite having all the physical tools in the world has never put up good numbers and is vastly overpaid? Was it Ken Hamlin, who is a major injury concern who wasn't overly impressive this past year? Last time we tried to take a physical in-the-box safety and have them play centerfield it didn't really work out too well. Was it that you wanted an out-of-place 3-4 defender to be our SLB? I just don't understand.

Personally, the only player who would have even been worth it is Deon Grant. Otherwise, we have young, promising players on our roster in their spot, or we have someone who is very close in talent.

Free agency is really, really awesome. Tell that to Antwan Randall El who is a third receiver now for Washington. And Adam Archuletta and his biggest contract ever for a safety only to be a special teams only player. 6.5 mil per year for that. Whoo hoo.

Personally, I think we should pay all those guys and let 'em sit on the bench, or play them ahead of our young playmakers thus ruining the primes of their career.


Free Agency is for when you're a good team and need a few extra pieces. You don't build the foundation of your team through it. It's not the ice cream, or the hot chocolate, the bowl or the spoon, or the peanuts, its the cherry on top and nothing else. Since we have an empty bowl at this point, why the hell are you so adament about rushing to add the cherry? It'd bring in nice PR and get the Packers back in the news, but really all that you'd have is an empty bowl with one cherry in it.

Jeez, get a load of this guy.

[retailguy]

Jeez, get a load of this guy.

Stop patting yourself on the back, you are liable to break your arm.

While I realize you think you are a "prophet", your asinine comments on Ahman Green render the rest of your points moot.

Have you checked the schedule for next year? How does Vernand Morency stack up against the quality defenses we'll be facing? Huge risk there. HUGE.

who is more likely to succeed in running against a quality defense? Ahman Green who always keeps his legs churning forward for the extra yard?, or Morency who peformed well as the OLINE performed well, and who performed poorly as the OLINE performed poorly?

We have an unproven RB, which brings a HUGE amount of risk. I don't like it. Too big of odds that it won't work.

[woodbuck27]

But wasn't everyone here wanting Hamlin? He's still there. And Grffith? Him too. Stevens is still on the board. Half of them are gone, but half are still there.

Jeremy Stevens?

I DO NOT WANT STONE HANDS on our roster.

However he is a Seahawk and we all know how much TT loves them even if they SUCK!

After M.Manuel, I suspect that Ted Thompson will be hesitant to bring in any more FA Seahawks.

To describe or observe Ted Thompson as scrupulously cautious isn't unfair.

[MJZiggy]

While I realize you think you are a "prophet", your asinine comments on Ahman Green render the rest of your points moot.

Have you checked the schedule for next year? How does Vernand Morency stack up against the quality defenses we'll be facing? Huge risk there. HUGE.

I can agree with this, especially the first part.

[Partial]

Jeez, get a load of this guy.

Stop patting yourself on the back, you are liable to break your arm.

While I realize you think you are a "prophet", your asinine comments on Ahman Green render the rest of your points moot.

Have you checked the schedule for next year? How does Vernand Morency stack up against the quality defenses we'll be facing? Huge risk there. HUGE.

who is more likely to succeed in running against a quality defense? Ahman Green who always keeps his legs churning forward for the extra yard?, or Morency who peformed well as the OLINE performed well, and who performed poorly as the OLINE performed poorly?

We have an unproven RB, which brings a HUGE amount of risk. I don't like it. Too big of odds that it won't work.

Resigning green would be good and nice. I'd love to do it. TT would love to do it. Ahman green would not love to do it, though. IT TAKES TWO(to make a thing go right) TO TANGO(and make it out of sight) . There is a reason every major sports media publication has criticized the move big time. Because it was an awful, awful signing by the Texans. I think it is a very positive thing we did not make their mistake. The only way this is bad if is TT dummies up and drafts Marshawn to make up for his "mistake", only to create an even bigger one.

Morency did fine last year. I don't see how he fought any less hard than Ahman fought. I think the combination of #1 and Morency will put up the exact amount of yards than an Ahman Green and Morency will put up, and it won't reck the future in the process.

The Pack aren't playing to win it all next year. They wouldn't be with Green, they wouldn't be with Adalius Thomas, Nate Clements, Ahman Green, Eric Johnson, McMichael and Graham. The fact of their matter is their foundation is not there.

You don't add the angel to the top of the christmas tree until the base is solidly in place, the lights are wrapped around it, and its decorated with its ornaments.

[Partial]

While I realize you think you are a "prophet", your asinine comments on Ahman Green render the rest of your points moot.

Have you checked the schedule for next year? How does Vernand Morency stack up against the quality defenses we'll be facing? Huge risk there. HUGE.

I can agree with this, especially the first part.

Poppycock. What did he do in 2004? Nothing. What did he do in 2005? Nothing except ride the pine. What did he do in 2006? Ride the pine, make one long run all season, and only 3 runs over 20 yards.