Green Bay and Chicago (only teams without a signing)

[Bretsky]

Don't you guys see where FA gets you. Just look at the Vikes and Redskins! Why pay top $$ for people others don't want!

How would we have done without Woodson last year ?

This is a general question to all of the posters that use the excuse that we can not "overpay" for the Turtle.

Surely we overpaid for Woodsen at the time.

And we'd have been in severe trouble without him. I have a hard time using the excuse that FA doesn't help in your success.

Thanks, B. You've made the point I've been trying to make all along. We did pay Woodson a lot of money (and pissed off Harris in the process to the point we had to redo his contract as well) and he wasn't signed until very late. He demonstrates that you can find guys later in the offseason that will make a huge difference to the team's success. Thompson saw that he had benefits to offer the team and took care of business. What makes you think at the beginning of March that it won't happen again? He's brought people in but not signed them. Maybe that means that when the guys got into town, in the discussions it became apparent that it wasn't a good fit. I don't know. I'm not speculating, but I'm just not willing to panic right now. There can be definite problems in getting a great big name guy that doesn't quite fit. (see Edgerrin James--great player, just not the killer in AZ everyone thought he was gonna be) I don't know what's going on in TT's office (I'm sure you'll share your ideas) but I know it worked out ok last year and figure he knows more about what's going on in there than I do. Last year I was really hoping for Vinatieri, but he didn't sign with us. TT still found a kicker before the season started, right.

Last year was a very strong FA year, and after Pickett TT camped out in his shell, and then stuck his head out and signed an impact player in Woodson

What makes me think he won't get away with that this year as well ? A weak free agency class and owners having too much money has changed the market. About 3/5 of the top 50 are signed after a week. I'm not convinced there will be anybody left of great impact to sign as late as we did with Woodson

[LEWCWA]

Thats bunk, cause the one guy they need to go after is still on the market-Hamlin.....Plus a trade for Moss would make this a nice FA period.

[LEWCWA]

Looking at the FA signed I really don't see any that jump out that we should have tried hard for.

[LEWCWA]

Sure Henry may have been nice at RB, but why bother.

[LEWCWA]

wr-Bennett is a nice player, but again why bother, Stallworth is a tease, these players just don't make GB much better

[LEWCWA]

The only thing I can say is I wish they would have locked up Green b4 FA. And maybe Griffith....I don't think any of the FA TE are better than what we have and the staff seems to be high on the young guys!!

[Pacopete4]

it is so weird though.. cuz TT as much as he frustrates everyone of us.. he did come thru last year FA wise..

[Bretsky]

Sure Henry may have been nice at RB, but why bother.

Henry
E Johnson
Griffeth
Hood (but I'm not sure about the terms....AT LEAST TRY)
Grant......or Hamlin


LEW, are you going to change your tune if/when Hamlin goes somewhere else as well ???

[esoxx]

Re: Contracts

Woodson's deal isn't all that expensive over the first few years, so yes, he was realtively inexpensive.

4 million signing bonus
4.4 million roster and "other"bonus in 2006
1.5 million salary in 2006
1.25 million salary in 2007
2.3 million roster/"other" bonus in 2007

I would hardly call making 9.9 mil in '06 alone realtively inexpensive for a guy who hadn't made it through a season in a few years and whose best years were behind him.

Even through '07 the contract still averages in the area of 6.5 mil.

That's pretty good $ for a CB on the wrong side of his career who until '06 hadn't shown the ability to stay on the field in several years.

[Patler]

Re: Contracts

Woodson's deal isn't all that expensive over the first few years, so yes, he was realtively inexpensive.

4 million signing bonus
4.4 million roster and "other"bonus in 2006
1.5 million salary in 2006
1.25 million salary in 2007
2.3 million roster/"other" bonus in 2007

I would hardly call making 9.9 mil in '06 alone realtively inexpensive for a guy who hadn't made it through a season in a few years and whose best years were behind him.

Even through '07 the contract still averages in the area of 6.5 mil.

That's pretty good $ for a CB on the wrong side of his career who until '06 hadn't shown the ability to stay on the field in several years.

You missed the point. He wasn't guaranteed the 9.9 million in 2006. He wasn't even guaranteed that by making the opening roster.

If he had not made it through the year he would not have made that much.
The 4 million signing bonus was guaranteed, but much of the rest was not. The salary of course was not guaranteed until he made the opening roster. Part of the 4.4 million was a roster bonus and guaranteed early, but a substantial part of it was a "per week" roster bonus that was earned only if he was on the active roster that week. That was an innovative bonus structure by the Packers that has now been used in Harris' new contract, and I think also for Driver and Wells.

I didn't say it was a cheap contract, but if he was not physically able to play it would not have cost the Packers nearly that much last year. Same for this year, with the "per week" bonus protection. The Packers have much better protection for the team in Woodson's contract than the Texans appear to have in Green's contract, for example. Or some of the teams that have given out huge signing bonuses.

So long as the player is healthy and playing, paying him doesn't really hurt the team even if he is overpaid a bit. The problem comes in when he is on IR or has been released, but still counts big dollars against the cap.

HYPOTHETICAL - How much better off would the Packers have been if Joe Johnson had been given a contract structured like Woodson's instead of all guarantees as he had?

Johnson was also a player with a long history of injury; and in two seasons in GB he played 11 games, total. He received about $11 million from GB for playing in those 11 games. If he had had a contract similar to Woodson's, with a smaller signing bonus and in season bonuses tied to playing time, the cap effect of his failure would not have been as significant of a problem as it was. If he had had a different contract structure, perhaps the Packers would have had the flexibility to re-sign Wahle .......

[LEWCWA]

Bret-I probably won't change it too much, but I would like to see tham pick up a guy like Hamlin only because Underwood is such a ?. To be honest I don't like any of the tight ends that were available. I think Graham is Bubba incarnate, Johnson is decent, but apparently the young guys have some ability, which I have no clue about. If it wasn't a difference maker at TE ie TG then I think Bubba is as good as the FA available. I do have to believe Bubba will be better next year too. ie get to go out on more patterns...It looked like he was getting in a groove in the Minn game, but low and behold he couldn't hold onto the ball....That shit happens sometimes.

[LEWCWA]

I don't like any of the WR either. If they can bring Moss in I'm all for it as he might be a difference maker on the field. I believe those are the kinds of players you take chances on. He may be a complete bust, but he also has the ability to give Favre a chance to break Mannings TD record, thats a chance I would be willing to take. Thats why I loved the Woodson signing, he has the ability to be a difference maker! Had he been a bust oh well! I would've been on board with trying to get McGahee as well as I believe he has the ability to be a special back.....Droughns, etc are just backs nothing special!

[HarveyWallbangers]

We don't really have young guys at TE. Bubba is on the downside of his career. Lee has been around awhile. Expecting Alcorn or Humphrey to be more than a serviceable backup is dreaming. I think we've seen enough of them to know they have limitations. It's as likely that one or both of those guys will be cut before the season starters.

[LEWCWA]

Limitations!? Well one of them it was quoted as haveing the best hands on the team.....talk about limitations--Graham-has huge limitations!

[LEWCWA]

Johnson is an injury season waiting to happen! And that was my point, why sign guys comparable to what is already here just to sign someone. Niether Jones or Graham are any better than Bubba!