Top QBs of All-Time

[motife]

The stat that MOST seperates modern QB'a from the pre-Walsh era is Yards per completion.

At the bottom of the list are Marino, Kelly, Manning, Montana, Favre and Brady.

The top 10 are Graham, Namath, Unitas, Hadl, Blanda, Bradshaw, Starr, Staubach, Dawson, and Y.A. Tittle.

[The Shadow]

"......Rankings do not speak to my heart though"

.................................................. .................................................
And that is one of the major reasons that Starr appears so high on my rankings.
If you check the records, he seemed to learn, after the first lost championship to the Eagles (with Jim Taylor falling only 9 yards short of a touchdown) how to find a way to win the big games - even as his supporting cast changed.
He did not possess the physical gifts of many of the top quarterbacks, but he was the ultimate field general - an extension of Lombardi himself -and had the uncanny ability to win under diverse circumstances.
The Ice Bowl drive in the closing moments was the single greatest, gutsiest feat of quarterbacking I've ever seen.

[Noodle]

I've never been of the view that Favre was at the very top of NFL quarterbacks because to me his suspect decisionmaking left him short of guys like Montana, Unitas, and Starr.

But I'm changing my mind. Favre this year has put it all together. I cannot believe how well he is playing. This quote from Sharper after the game today says it all:

"He's making all the proper decisions. You don't see him making some of the decisions he made in the past," Sharper said. "They're putting a lot on him, throwing the ball a lot, and he's not making too many bad throws. He's playing at the MVP level that he has played at before."

Remember people saying that Favre would hurt his legacy by continuing to play because his skills were going to betray him? Last year, that looked to be the case. But not now. We are seeing some of the most amazing, intelligent QBing ever.

[Rastak]

I've never been of the view that Favre was at the very top of NFL quarterbacks because to me his suspect decisionmaking left him short of guys like Montana, Unitas, and Starr.

But I'm changing my mind. Favre this year has put it all together. I cannot believe how well he is playing. This quote from Sharper after the game today says it all:

"He's making all the proper decisions. You don't see him making some of the decisions he made in the past," Sharper said. "They're putting a lot on him, throwing the ball a lot, and he's not making too many bad throws. He's playing at the MVP level that he has played at before."

Remember people saying that Favre would hurt his legacy by continuing to play because his skills were going to betray him? Last year, that looked to be the case. But not now. We are seeing some of the most amazing, intelligent QBing ever.

He was laying the ball in exactly where it needed to be. I was very impressed and very pissed.

[oregonpackfan]

I've never been of the view that Favre was at the very top of NFL quarterbacks because to me his suspect decisionmaking left him short of guys like Montana, Unitas, and Starr.

But I'm changing my mind. Favre this year has put it all together. I cannot believe how well he is playing. This quote from Sharper after the game today says it all:

"He's making all the proper decisions. You don't see him making some of the decisions he made in the past," Sharper said. "They're putting a lot on him, throwing the ball a lot, and he's not making too many bad throws. He's playing at the MVP level that he has played at before."

Remember people saying that Favre would hurt his legacy by continuing to play because his skills were going to betray him? Last year, that looked to be the case. But not now. We are seeing some of the most amazing, intelligent QBing ever.

He was laying the ball in exactly where it needed to be. .

I agree with Rastak on this point. Favre's throws are primarily short passes but he made long passes to Jennings, Jones(TD's) and a long one to Lee where the ball landed smack in the receiver's hands while he was in full stride.

[vince]

This is a great debate with so many great perspectives on different quarterbacks from different eras that I wanted to add a good article by Terry Bradshaw...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7283620

Favre is the best in the business

Hey folks, I'm not kidding around. I really meant it when I said that Brett Favre is the best quarterback I've ever seen play. I will say it again. I have documented it. I put it on the cover of a book. He's the best there ever was and that covers everybody.

I know people are going to get on me and say Joe Montana. Joe and I both won four Super Bowls. But you know I don't believe in all these 1-2-3 systematic quarterbacks that run that West Coast offense that we've seen for so many years now — with all that great talent around them, too. Just think of that. I know that Favre has thrown a lot of interceptions (49 since the '05 season), but when you think of all the great quarterbacks in the modern era — I don't even know if you would call me a modern quarterback — all of us have had a stable set of wide receivers.
Look at Dan Marino with Mark Clayton and Mark Duper when he started. Look at me with Lynn Swann and John Stallworth and Montana with Jerry Rice, Dwight Clark and some of the others. Dan Fouts had great receivers in San Diego his entire career. All of them had a steady, very reliable complement of receivers.

But look at Favre. He's had to endure so much there. Antonio Freeman was a good receiver but wasn't in the same class as a Rice or a Swann or a Kellen Winslow. Now he has Donald Driver, and he's solid. But he also has a rookie receiver in James Jones and he might be good some day, but he's a rookie. Brett is doing so much just leading that team, and it just looks like he's playing so smart.

Favre has now thrown 210 more touchdown passes than I did. He's attempted over 4,000 more passes than me. So it's not necessarily all him, either. In this day and age, the game is so wide open that you better put up great numbers. I'm sure someone like Peyton Manning or possibly even Tom Brady, with the offense he has right now, could threaten Favre's records some day, who knows?

It's like I said on the show: Not too many people ever ask me how many touchdown passes I threw in my career. In all the corporate outings I've been on, all the speeches and conventions and Q&As I've given, nobody has ever asked me that. Never.

Now, I'm not putting down his record. I'm just stating a fact that I'm not that impressed with records like these. I'm more impressed with the fact that Favre has started 240 consecutive regular-season games. Now that my friend is the most incredible record and I truly believe it will never be broken.

You can tell by watching the Packers play and that shot in the locker room after the game that everybody loves Favre. He's a pied piper. He's someone that people get behind. And you know what? No disrespect to the Dan Marinos of the world and guys who screamed and hollered all the time, but you never really see Favre scream and holler at guys out on the field. He's loved. Now I've seen him get upset with some of their rookies, but that's understandable for what he knows and what they don't know yet about pro football.

Brett has always been one of those "aw shucks" kind of guys, but you know that he's very proud. He's a proud person.

And have we ever seen a player in our lifetime, or anyone that we know in today's electronic media, whose family has suffered more in front of our eyes only to have him come out and punctuate it with a phenomenal effort? If it's not his family, it's his wife's family or the time that Deanna was fighting cancer — and it seems that all the adversity, the doubt, all the stories about him going to retire just motivates him even more. He keeps coming back and playing so well and his team is 4-0 and it seems like he's throwing every down because they still don't have a running back.

Brett gives us so much to talk about in so many ways. I mean, from adversity to the painkiller addiction to the tragedies in his personal life to the great Super Bowl win over New England, to all the interceptions, back to being a gunslinger, something that Mike Holmgren tried to get out of his system to back to where he is now, carrying this football team to an unbeaten record.

But it's early folks. It's only four games. The season has a long ways to go.

He's been great for us. He appears to be media friendly. And I think that's a great compliment to him; he seems to be very much approachable to the average Joe out there. And there is probably no bigger superstar in our game than Brett. Now, he doesn't have the Super Bowl rings like Brady, who tends to be quieter about his career.

But I don't mind that Favre wears his career on his sleeve for all to see. There is no mystique here. We are all drawn to that because we feel that we know everything about him. And we love what we see. He's truly loved.

I mean, we don't see him do a thousand commercials so when we see one like Wrangler, I say he must really like those jeans. He must wear them. It's refreshing. When he leaves this game, I don't know if there is another Brett Favre out there.

[The Leaper]

Bradshaw and Starr have it right. There have been other QBs who were more successful in terms of titles, but they all had significantly more talent around them to work with and far less instability with their coaching staff. In terms of raw talent, desire to win, and critical leadership in the time of change and uncertainty, there might not an equal to Favre in the history of the league.

Favre has had 4 different coaching regimes to play through while remaining with the same team. How many QB icons have had that kind of disruption to work through? Most had one coach, and typically a great one at that, through the majority of their career...maybe switching over to another one for several years at the end of their lengthy career, like Marino or Elway.

The constant change around Favre, both in coaching philosophy and talent on the roster, makes his ability to continue to play at an elite level over 15+ years even more remarkable. There are very few QBs in the history of the league that could have matched what Favre has done.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kind of interesting that Sal likes Starr more than Unitas, and he has some pretty damn convincing numbers to use.

Barry failed in big games; Deion flourished
By Sal Paolantonio, ESPN

In his new book, "The Paolantonio Report: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players, Teams, Coaches & Moments in NFL History," Sal Paolantonio challenges some of your long-held beliefs about America's popular game.

Here's what we think about Johnny Unitas: With one magical stroke in 1958, he changed the game of pro football forever. Each year, it seems, a new book mythologizes his status as a cultural icon. In short, he gets the John Lennon treatment. Bart Starr? He gets treated like Ringo -- not Jim Ringo, the great Green Bay Packers center, but Ringo Starr, the Beatles drummer who always seems to be overlooked and undervalued.

Starr has been dismissed as the caretaker of great Packers teams. Not so. Take a second look by comparing him to Unitas, who posted a career playoff passer rating of 68.9 with seven touchdown passes and 10 interceptions. Starr? He had a career playoff passer rating 104.8, the highest in NFL history, safely ahead of the next best guy, Joe Montana (95.6).

Starr threw just three interceptions in 213 career postseason attempts. And get this: When Tom Brady threw four picks during the playoffs last year, Starr reclaimed the career record for fewest interceptions per pass attempt in NFL postseason history.

Starr -- who won more championships than Unitas, Steve Young, Dan Marino and (thus far) Brett Favre combined -- is the most underrated quarterback in NFL history.

That's what "The Paolantonio Report: the Most Overrated and Underrated Players, Teams, Coaches & Moments in NFL History" is all about. It provides a fresh perspective. It's an attempt to set the record straight -- or at least provide plenty to debate.

So much of what we know about pro football has been catapulted through the star-maker machinery, achieving mythical status -- undeservedly so. Take the 1985 Chicago Bears. A great, great team. But shouldn't we hoist the 1976 Oakland Raiders on the same pedestal?

Both teams lost only one regular-season game. But, to get their Lombardi Trophy, the Raiders had to beat teams for the ages with Hall of Fame quarterbacks -- first Terry Bradshaw and the Steel Curtain, then Fran Tarkenton and the Purple People Eaters. The Bears? They beat the Rams with Dieter Brock at the helm, then the Patriots with Steve Grogan at quarterback.

If it's not being overhyped, so much of the NFL is now being processed through the meat grinder of our current national obsession, fantasy football. So, while it contains plenty of statistical analysis, this book consciously avoids a slavish obedience to numbers and trends, instead considering the historical impact of the team, coach or player.

For example, the drafting of Bob Hayes is one of the most underrated moments in NFL history. His speed changed the game forever. You can't write a history of the league without Bullet Bob. Yet he's not in Canton. That should be corrected.

So, here's a snapshot of the book. Two guys named Sanders, two huge stars -- one overrated, one underrated. Let the debate begin.

Barry Sanders -- Overrated

Barry Sanders, who was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2004 (his first year of eligibility), scored one touchdown for every 35 touches in his 153 regular-season games, but just one touchdown in 112 postseason touches in six playoff games.

Indeed, Sanders' only career playoff touchdown was a 47-yard run against the Dallas Cowboys in a 1991 divisional-round playoff game in the Pontiac Silverdome. The Lions won that game 38-6. Sanders' touchdown came in the final minutes of the fourth quarter with Detroit already leading 31-6. The following week, the Lions went on the road to play the Washington Redskins at RFK Stadium. Sanders was not a factor. Detroit took a 41-10 beating.

Sanders' postseason performance supports the notion that he was a product of the cozy, climate-controlled Silverdome. Nice carpet for easy, stop-on-a-dime maneuvering. Seventy-two degrees. Detroit faithful keeping the defensive line off balance with high decibel support.

In four career outdoor postseason games, Sanders averaged a paltry 2.8 yards per carry. He never scored a touchdown. And he never ran for more than 65 yards in a single game. With Sanders, the Lions went 0-4 in outdoor playoff games, losing by an average of 17 points.

Nobody is suggesting that a bust of Barry should not be in Canton. He's the third-leading rusher of all time with 15,269 yards. He holds the all-time NFL record for consecutive 1,000 seasons with 10, from 1989 to 1998. Sanders was the first player to rush for 1,500 yards in a season five times. He was selected to 10 Pro Bowls. In 1997, when he rushed for 2,053 yards, he was NFL co-MVP, an honor he should have not had to share with Brett Favre that season. In 1988, Sanders won the Heisman Trophy at Oklahoma State.

But this picture of perfection has a nasty blemish. Once Sanders got to the big stage, and got out of the Silverdome, he was a bust.

Take the wild-card playoff game at Lambeau Field in 1994. That season, Sanders averaged 5.7 yards per carry -- the second-highest total of his career. In the first round of the playoffs against the Green Bay Packers, on Lambeau Field's frozen tundra, Sanders set an NFL postseason record for rushing futility. He had 13 carries for minus-one yard. He had four catches that day -- for four yards. Which means he had 16 touches for a total of three yards -- 2.7 yards less than he averaged per rush in the regular season.

Now, the spirited defense of putting him in the Hall of Fame on the first ballot always includes the theory that Sanders was the only thing the Lions had going for them in The Barry Sanders Era. That's exactly what it is -- a theory, and a bad one at that.

Did we forget about wide receivers Herman Moore and Brett Perriman? The Lions stretched the field for Sanders -- especially in the Dome. This helped him be wildly successful -- in the regular season. And in the years when the Lions went to the playoffs, their defense was not awful. It was middle of the pack -- ranked 11th in 1991, 15th in 1993, 19th in 1994, 14th in 1995 and 10th in 1997.

There is another ugly scar on Sanders' career: His Greta Garbo act on the way out the door.

After rushing for 1,491 yards in 1998, Sanders abruptly and mysteriously retired. At the time, he was 1,457 yards shy of Walter Payton's all-time rushing record. His defenders say Sanders -- who played the game with dignity and class -- did not owe anybody anything. As long as he was at peace with the decision, that was enough. That's bunk.

Here was a man who benefited greatly from the support of his teammates, his organization and his fans -- and he just turned his back on them without a word of gratitude. He left his teammates and a franchise in the lurch, to the point that the Lions demanded he return $7.3 million of his signing bonus.

Years later, when it was time for him to become eligible for Canton, Sanders had to be coaxed into providing some kind of explanation for his untimely retirement.

It was too little, too late.

Postscript: Of the five leading rushers in NFL history, Sanders is the only one to never reach a Super Bowl. The others -- Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton, Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis -- all reached at least one Super Bowl. And all but Martin won at least one NFL championship ring.

Deion Sanders -- Underrated

You hear it all the time: Deion Sanders wasn't a great cornerback because he never tackled anybody. That's like saying Dan Marino wasn't a great quarterback because he couldn't run.

Sanders was the best cover corner in NFL history. Who cares how many tackles he made? The game is about making explosive plays and preventing them. Sanders did both.

With his astonishing makeup speed, remarkable instincts, and knack for reading quarterbacks, Sanders routinely blotted out the best receiver on the other side of the line of scrimmage.

And once he got the football in his hands, Sanders became a magician. Think Devin Hester skateboarding on the Millennium Falcon. Sanders was better than any defensive back in NFL history at transforming himself into an offensive weapon and going the other way with the football.

"There's two kinds of corners in the NFL," Bengals receiver Chad Johnson said. "Regular corners play not to get beat. Deion Sanders played the game to make a play."

The problem with Sanders is that there was always so much going on with him, it tended to overshadow his performance on the football field. He was "Prime Time" in M.C. Hammer's world. He recorded a rap album with song titles like "House of Prime," "Time for Prime," "Prime Time Keeps on Ticking," "Must Be the Money" and "Y U NV Me?"

Sanders hosted "Saturday Night Live." He appeared in commercials for Nike, Burger King, Visa and Pizza Hut. For a while there, he was everywhere, and the focus drifted away from Deion Sanders the cornerback to Neon Deion.

The image -- the designer suits, the controversial interviews, the celebrity appearances -- all served to distract people from his astonishing ability. And don't let that unparalleled speed and athleticism fool you. Sanders was a true student of the game. His film study and preparation were legendary. Most times, he knew the wide receivers better than their own quarterbacks. He had a catalogue of tics and tells on every guy he faced.

This rare combination of preparation and physical skill made him the greatest shut-down cornerback -- ever.

Even though opposing quarterbacks tried to throw nowhere near Sanders, he still finished his career with 53 interceptions in 173 NFL games, or one every 3.3 games.

And once the ball was in his hands, Sanders truly became Prime Time. His 1,331 career return yards are the second-most in NFL history, as are his nine touchdown returns. His average of 25.1 yards per interception return is an NFL record.

And true to his nickname, he really was a prime-time player. He's one of only five cornerbacks in NFL history to win Super Bowls for two different teams, the 49ers in 1994 and the Cowboys in 1995. He had an interception in the 49ers' Super Bowl win over the Chargers, and he shares the NFL postseason record with at least one interception in three consecutive games.

Sanders was such a skilled cornerback that when he came out of retirement with the Ravens in 2004 -- four years after he last played a game -- he had three interceptions in nine games playing almost exclusively in nickel situations, then two in '05 at age 38.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Kind of interesting that Sal likes Starr more than Unitas, and he has some pretty damn convincing numbers to use.

Re: Starr -- What I said. When the money was on the line, Starr shined. Not only does he have the championship rings, he's got the MVP awards in those games.

Re: Barry Sanders -- Don't know if I agree. When you played Detroit, it was Barry Sanders you feared would beat you. Yeah, Herman Moore was good, but who did Detroit have throwing the ball. It seemed Detroit was always quarterbacked by some QB wannabee named Erik or Milt. Anyone doubt the Packers would have been champions if they had drafted Sanders?

Re: Dion Sanders -- I agree the guy was good, but the greatest shut down corner in NFL history? Boy, there's an argument waiting to happen. I saw Dick "Night Train" Lane play at the tail end of his career and that old man was awe-inspiring then. And if I had first dibbs on any cornerback who ever played, I wouldn't choose Sanders. I'd choose Herb Adderley.

In many ways Herb was like Sanders. He returned kicks with the best of them. He was a master of making game-changing picks and taking them to the house. He was a many time all-pro. And he could shut down receivers with the best of them. Plus, he could tackle.

There was another major difference between Adderley and Sanders. Adderley was no showboat; he just played. He's one of the major reasons Unitas' quarterback rating was so low in the post season.

[The Leaper]

I love all the haters on Barry Sanders. Stick Emmitt Smith on those Lions teams, and he is lucky to ever run for 1000 yards in a season.

Barry Sanders put up insane rushing numbers on a team without a passing game most of the time and that was typically playing from behind much of the time. Who the hell cares if he gets stopped for -2 yards on one play when his next one is for 27? The key with Sanders was his consistency...he DID always come back and make the big play. He never did anything in the postseason because the teams he played on were horrible and coached by an idiot in Wayne Fontes.

Hey Sal! What the hell did Walter Payton ever do in the postseason? Do you hold that against him too? Sure, Walter won a Super Bowl...but it wasn't because of him. In his illustrious career, Walter had exactly TWO...count them...TWO postseason TDs. He averaged only 3.5 yards a carry in the postseason as well. I guess Walter Payton is overrated as well.

To me, Sanders and Favre are the same guy in terms of their approach to the game. Both were willing to take risks to do what is necessary to lead their team to victory. Barry wasn't going to win games for the Lions by plugging it up the gut for 3 yards every time. Brett wasn't going to win games for the Packers by being risk-aversive either. Their negative runs and INTs are what made them great...because that kind of go-for-broke attitude helped their teams far more than it hindered them.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I was listening to Aaron Schatz of Pro Football Prospectus on the radio this summer. Their org. did a comparision of QBs, and in his opinion Bart Starr was much better than Favre, and it wasn't even close.

What they did was choose stats/indicators that are most closely tied to the team winning, and place greater weight on those stats. I think passing efficiency is at top of that last. I think they rated Starr as the best QB to ever play. It would be interesting to see their analysis, maybe I can find it.

[The Leaper]

Did they rate Starr's efficiency before Lombardi showed up and surrounded him with talent? I'd like to see that analysis of how putrid Starr was when he didn't have a wing of Canton around him to utilize.

I don't give a rat's ass what some pundit thinks...especially if his name is Schatz. That is roughly equivalent to where I thought his information was coming from.

Want the straight up butter? BART STARR says Brett is a far better QB than he ever was. I think that is enough for me.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Want the straight up butter? BART STARR says Brett is a far better QB than he ever was. I think that is enough for me.

And Brett Favre has said that Dan Marino is a far better QB than him. What do you expect these guys to say?
Favre is obviously more physically gifted than Starr, so it is certainly sincere for Starr to say he is better.

BTW, Schatz predicted that the PAckers would be an excellent team, tops in the NFC North, and this was back in mid July when most thought the Pack would suck. His thinking was mainly maturation of younger players, I think.


Schatz was very impressive (to me), I think you are foolish to just dismiss an objective analysis.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Doesn't seem to be the Schatz comparison on the web, but I stumbled across this:

The 100 Greatest Quarterbacks of the Modern Era
1 Johnny Unitas
2 Joe Montana
3: Fran Tarkenton
4: Dan Marino
5: John Elway
6: Steve Young
7: Ken Anderson
8: Dan Fouts
9: Brett Favre
10: Roger Staubach
11: Sonny Jurgensen
12: Len Dawson
13: Bart Starr
14: Warren Moon
15: Peyton Manning
16: Roman Gabriel
17: Norm Van Brocklin
18: Y.A. Tittle
19: Terry Bradshaw
20: Bob Griese

[HarveyWallbangers]

Interesting site. It's hard to take seriously Ken Anderson at #7. That would be like ranking Marc Bulger high because his passer rating is good. I know Anderson is better than that, but Bulger were to have another 6-7 years like he has had the last few years that would be comparable.