Cliff Christl's final chat tonight. THURSDAY, March 29 - 07

[woodbuck27]

http://www2.jsonline.com/packer/insider/chat/chat.asp?id=christl

Packer Chats
Visit JS Online's Packer Plus section

THURSDAY, March 29, 7 p.m. CDT

Cliff Christl
Packer Insider columnist

On the eve of his retirement, Cliff Christl answers your questions in his final regular Packer Insider chat (we'll try to get him back occasionally as a guest chatter, but this is it from him for now). ALSO: Post your farewell message to Cliff in our online forum


Submit question for Cliff Christl


Click here to refresh the page and check for updated questions and answers.

[Cleft Crusty]

As great a GM as Matt Millen has been, I was betting Millen would have been fired before Cristl retired. Question now is whether Millen can outlast McGinn.

[pbmax]

Crusty, how's you back/kidney/knee/heart/prostate holding up? Are you going to outlast Brad Childress?

As great a GM as Matt Millen has been, I was betting Millen would have been fired before Cristl retired. Question now is whether Millen can outlast McGinn.

[MJZiggy]

I think Cleft can make it another two weeks. (that said, Childress will be in Minny for another 20 years)

[Rastak]

I think Cleft can make it another two weeks. (that said, Childress will be in Minny for another 20 years)

I sure hope so.....the only way that happens is many many wins.......


Didn't realize you were a fan Zig!

[MJZiggy]

Many many wins, just like Millen in Detroit...

[Rastak]

Many many wins, just like Millen in Detroit...

Zygi is smarter than Ford......




I F*ing hope at any rate!

[Cleft Crusty]

Crusty, how's you back/kidney/knee/heart/prostate holding up? Are you going to outlast Brad Childress?

The problem is the uncharted waters of drug interactions. I recently experienced the combination of Levitra, Viagra, and Flomax. For an accurate mental picture, think Mentos and Coke.

[chewy-bacca]

The problem is the uncharted waters of drug interactions. I recently experienced the combination of Levitra, Viagra, and Flomax. For an accurate mental picture, think Mentos and Coke.

[MJZiggy]

Zygi is smarter than Ford......

How is that possible? He can't even spell 'Ziggy."

[motife]

Q: Dan of Lowville, NY - Mr. Christl, it seems to me, from afar, that Mr. Bob Harlan is one of the most decent, admirable individuals if football. Do you agree, and whom would you add to that list, among the coaches, players, and executives you have known (or covered)over the years?

A: Cliff Christl - Dan, you posted first. We'll stick with tradition and start with you. In my eyes, the ideal person to interview is someone who is honest, first and foremost; informative and willing to speak on-the-record; and understanding that some situations require tough questions. It would be hard to beat Bob Harlan on all three points. Tom Braatz was much like that. Sometimes with Ron Wolf, there was considerable give and take, but he was usually a good interview. Dick Corrick was alwyas cooperative. I always enjoyed talking to Dave Hanner and the late Red Cochran, who might have had the longest tenure in the Packers' football operations. They were gruff, old school, shot from the hip and didn't care if they offended anyone, and they almost always were extremely insightful. Of all the assistant coaches, Tom Lovat probably was as blunt as anyone. Remember that quote about John Michels and his sympathy pains or whatever it was?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: denis of hot springs arkansas - hi cliff..although i have read your work and chats on the net for quit some time now i have never posted a question. i am an avid packer fan in arkansas. thanks to the nfl ticket i have been able to watch all the games for several years now. i really have no question. i really don't know that much about the inside works of the game all i do is enjoy it throughly. i really just wanted to thank you for puting up with all the so called know it alls out there. you've been more than great...thank you

A: Cliff Christl - Thanks and I think most fans approach the game the way you do: They're attached to their team, want to learn as much as they can about it, and enjoy the games for the entertainment. On the other hand, there are other fans who start the "Fire so-and-so...," websites, think they know it all, rant and rave over the most innane matters, etc., etc. I hope they're in the minority. I think they certainly were among Packer Insider subscribers. Most of the questions that have been posted on these chats over the years were good questions. But back to those fans who have no sense of perspective, no sense of decency. Under the circumstances, I enjoyed taking shots at them -- hopefully some were haymakers that landed -- and loved to irritate them. I realize they were readers and I valued that. They contributed to my salary. So they weren't all bad. But I saw a sign in a bar in Fort Meyers, Fla., this winter that I think applies here: It read: "Some people call them customers. We call them obnoxious morons." Let's face it, probably between 90 and 99% of Packer fans are great fans. But there are some obnoxious morons in the crowd, as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: kwed of dubuque - Cliff, my arch nemesis, I wish you well. One last question-- you mentioned that you used to sit in the stadium and watch the packers as a kid--did you stand and cheer then? take care

A: Cliff Christl - No. I don't think I've ever cheered in my life at a sporting event. I've always just sat quietly and watched the game. After all, that's all it is: A game. Even as a kid I was a curious and avid spectator, but never loud or emotional or demonstrative.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Tim of Merced, CA - Two questions: 1. What will be your final act/duty as a reporter and 2. What will your be first act as a retiree? Enjoy, your retirement, you will be missed and not easily replaced.

A: Cliff Christl - 1) To hand in my tools of the trade -- sadly, it doesn't include a Smith Corona. 2) Have a couple beers with some co-workers and dinner with my wife.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Vince Cuilla of Millersville, MD - Cliff, Thanks for your honesty, insights and research through the years. With that said, do you think the Packers should consider signing David Carr to compete with Rogers? My guess is, the price is too high. Enjoy your retirement, but please come back for an occasional chat! Vince

A: Cliff Christl - No. Nobody is going to know for sure about Rodgers until he gets a chance to play. That's why I put little stock in the Moss for Rodgers trade rumors. You don't give up on a No. 1 draft pick without taking a long look at him in game situations. And before you give him that chance, you don't want to mess with his head. Do you put pressure on him to produce? Yes. But you don't sign some other iffy qb prospect in this situation just to create some bogus competition.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Tim of Batavia - Cliff, Best of luck, I know that you have touched on this a bit in the past but here goes. It's probably safe to assume that A Rodgers is not going to be one of the top QB's in the league, but where does he compare to say a Hasselbeck after two years. In the following categories, where does he(potentially) rank in comparison to say a Hasselbeck or a Jake Delhomme; Arm Strength, Accuracy, Mobility, Leadership abilities, overall Presence. Thanks for all your hard work over the years - and perhaps when you answer the question you should consider the expectation of replacing of legend with a (hopefully) very good QB - much like the MJS will do when they try and replace you with an average joe.

A: Cliff Christl - Excellent question. Hasselbeck didn't play at all for two years, then went through some trying times in Seattle. Quarterbacks develop at different rates and some never develop. I think there are some similarities between Hasselbeck and Rodgers maybe in terms of arm strength and being able to sidestep a rush. I don't think either one is at the high end of the chart. But they're not at the low end, either. I've never been that high on Delhomme. He strikes me as a marginal talent, but he seems to be an inspiring leader. I don't think that's enough, but that will be another test for Rodgers. Will the players believe in him and follow him? As Brett Favre's successor, it won't be easy earning that kind of respect and confidence.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: brad of highland park - Hi Cliff, I'd like to know how you'd rate Jim Carter in Packer LB history. He played on some bad teams during the Devine era. Also any memories of the NFL strike that I think Carter and Larry Hefner crossed. Thanks again Cliff for the great writing & chats. They will be missed.

A: Cliff Christl - Underrated. Better than Ray Nitschke when he replaced him and didn't deserve the abuse he received from fans. Carter was a Pro Bowl pick in 1973. As I recall, injuries affected him soon thereafter. He was just a good player and once he got some nicks, again, as I recall, his performance slipped, as it usually does with good players.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Jamie E. of Milwaukee of thee Wisconsin - Cliff, farewell to you! I have to admit that it literally took YEARS for you to grow on me, but now that you're leaving, I can truly admit that your brand of objectivity has at least made me a critical thinking fan who tries to relate all of the facts, and then determine why sports teams win and lose. So I actually appreciate professional sports more because I am now able to see losing in winning (Packers consecutive winning seasons resulting in low draft picks), and winning in losing (getting rid of your better, but oldest, players or being able to land a franchise player within the top 5 picks). So I thank you, though my friends would curse you as they still make the intellectually arguments of "draft better players, sign better players, trade for better players, fire bad coaches, hire great coaches" without supporting their arguments with "what draft spot did they have, what coaches were available to hire, could they sign certain players under the salary cap, do they have any players of trade value they can afford to part with, ect." So thank you for all of your insight and critical thinking and I wish more reporters were as objective in their reporting of world events as you have been in sports. Oh what a world that'd be

A: Cliff Christl - Thanks, but I sure hope you don't tell anyone that my charm won you over.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Rob of San Jose, CA - Cliff, since this is the last chance I have to ask you -- you have said in previous chats that you were covering baseball in '89 and '90. Does that mean that while you were busy covering Molitor and Yount, you don't remember very much from Majkowski's "Majik" year? Or the instant replay game with the Bears? Or how Minnesota beat Cincy to knock us out off the playoffs on a Xmas Monday night game? Since you were following baseball that year, what did you think of Yount winning the MVP over Ruben Sierra? Thanks for all the chats and the great work over the years.

A: Cliff Christl - I covered the earthquake in San Francisco that year after it interrupted the World Series and then headed to Ireland on a bicycle trip. I also think I covered baseball's winter meetings. So I never saw the instant replay game and don't have much recollection of the Vikings-Bengals game. Sorry, but I don't remember if I voted for Yount or not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Jeff of Minneapolis - I strongly suspect that the Packers will find suitable replacements for Ahman Green, David Martin, and William Henderson. I'm not certain the JS Online will find a replacement anywhere approaching what a certain Cliff Christl brought to covering the Packers. As you leave, who are some of the football writers, Packers beat or not, who you particularly admire? Who can those of us fans turn to who will give us the type of analysis you provided instead of simply rah-rah homerism?

A: Cliff Christl - Boy, I really admire Tom Silverstein of our staff. I don't think there are many who work harder and maintain a higher standard of ethics than he does. I enjoy reading Peter King, Don Pierson. I don't get to read much of Rick Gosselin, but I'm impressed with his work ethic and knowledge when I'm around him. There are a lot of good people in this business and a lot of them bring much more talent to the table.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Terrence Murphy of Texas - Cliff, it may be early, but TT's first draft is leaning toward abysmal. Rodgers is likely another Harrington at best. A 5th, 6th and two 7th rd picks from that draft are gone after two years, and Coston and Montgomery may be on their way out this summer as well since they have showed little. That leaves Collins and Poppinga and maybe Underwood. Giving TT Underwood, that is 3 out of 11 picks. That must be worse than the league average. On top of that, no pro-bowlers in that bunch either. your thoughts

A: Cliff Christl - Fair question. But I think the jury is out on Rodgers and he's the key to the draft. The No. 1 pick always is. If they get three good players out of that draft, it's not a bad batting average. But I'm not sure they'll get three good players out of it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: rich of Stillwater - Before you retire I thought I should disagree on a few points- by nature. 1. Star players alone won't win titles, Tom Brady is the best player in the league but if you surround him with "c" talent instead of "a" or "b" talent you'll lose. You have to attempt to continually upgrade your roster at each position. 2. Ted Thompson is one dimensional - the draft and that won't cut it. You have to upgrade your roster through the draft, free agency and trades. Seattle made it to the SB after Ted left and they were active in FA. Cheap Ted will improve the Packers but won't make the big splash you're talking about and will be his downfall. 3. It's too bad you're retiring, I always enjoyed reading your columns and blogs and your insights. Enjoy retirement.

A: Cliff Christl - Rich: What do you think Tom Brady played with last year? His receivers weren't even C talent. They were D-, at best and the Patriots came within a minute and a touchdown of probably winning the Super Bowl. Weren't the Colts the worst or one of the worst run defenses in the history of the league? That means they had several below-average players on that unit. Their guards weren't a whole lot better than Klemm and Whitticker. Yes, it's important to have good players. But the Patriots are about a 6-10 to 8-8 team without Brady and the Colts aren't even that without Manning. Why do you think a pedestrian running back like Dominic Rhodes ran crazy in the Super Bowl? Because the Bears are playing pass on basically every down. And why do you think that was? Did you ever play baseball? How many singles do you think you could have hit if the other team placed all eight of its fielders at the fence? There's some hyperbole there, but that's what the Bears were basically doing on defense in the Super Bowl. They were playing to avoid the home run by Manning and giving the Colts the nickel-and-dime stuff, including the run. And Manning was smart enough, patient enough and good enough to take advantage of it, although that meant his numbers weren't all that great. As for needing to build with more than just draft picks, I agree. But I think Thompson has made a point, just as Wolf did, of bringing in street free agents, etc., to see if they might be a good fit for the Packers or if someone made a mistake on them, etc. There aren't many trades anymore. And spending on free agency has backfired on most teams. I'd be willing to bet -- although I've done no research to support this -- that if you went back over the last 10 years, street free agents, guys signed off the scrapheap, or close to minimum contract UFAs have contributed almost as much as the players who received the big contracts. So just because Thompson isn't throwing around money on overpriced free agents doesn't mean he isn't on the lookout for players via other means than the draft.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Craig Danula of Camp Humphreys, Korea - Mr. Christl, I want to thank you for all you have done in covering the Green Bay Packers. You will be greatly missed. I'm wondering if you are going to be totally retired or will you grace us with one of your outstanding columns here and there? PLEASE come back once in a while to give us some Packer history. At the very least, please write some more books Thank you and God Bless.

A: Cliff Christl - I may try to write some books. But I'm just going to play it by ear for awhile.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Shunty Harvat of Chicago,IL - Cliff, what are the chances the Packers draft a QB in the first 3 rounds? If they do I'm assuming they are not 100% satisfied with the progress of Aaron Roders - would you agree?

A: Cliff Christl - I'd be surprised unless they really, really like somebody that falls in the first round. They'd be shooting at darts in the second and third rounds, and not getting anyone with any more talent than Rodgers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Barry Raab of Saint Simons Island Ga - Cliff - Best of Luck to you. i have enjoyed your work for many years. The one exception Is several years ago you responded to some one buy telling that person you didnt care what anyone thinks of you. I think we all know that everyone cares about SOMEONE! Quick question- Does Engle Martin have a future with the Packers in your opinion? Thanks again for all your hard work!!

A: Cliff Christl - We have thousands of subscribers for Packer Insider. There are millions of Packer fans. What are the odds they're all going to like me? Or that they'd all like you? So why care? As I've written before, I probably wouldn't like them either. I engage in a lot of locker room humor with my friends. I enjoy the give-and-take and I'm willing to take their best shots. Otherwise, I think I treat 99% of the people I meet with politeness and sincerity. But if I don't like someone, I let them know it. Time is too valuable to deal with people who are a pain in the butt. And sometimes the only way to get rid of them is to tell them that. Mike McCarthy has said he sees some potential in Martin. He knows way more about quarterbacks than I do. I didn't see much in Martin in training camp that impressed me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Chris Ison of Plymouth, Minn. - Cliff, As a longtime reporter and editor (currently journalism professor) I hate to see you go. I liked the reporting your brought to your work. And if I remember the old Press Gazette days correctly, you had one of the best column titles ever: Cliff's Christl Ball, right? Question: Have you seen any trends in sports reporting that bother you? Emphasis on writing over reporting, rah-rah coverage, etc? Thanks.

A: Cliff Christl - I think too many reporters feel they have to be buddies to develop sources. I almost never spoke to a player about anything other than football and the story that I was working on. Never wanted to be their friends. I think that's a mistake.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Digger of Andover - Cliff; You have no insight. You're theories are unfounded. Your hypotheses are groundless. You have poor vocabulary and suspect personal hygiene habits. Your "superstar" theory is no more than an statement of the obvious. You still have Shermy on your Christmas card list. Your writing is banal and occasionally bullying. However, you are[excepting Lea Remme] the undisputed authority on Packer History, the city of Green Bay, and roadside dining. You've made it more fun to be a Packer fan and forced everyone of us proudly residing on the fringe to think a little more before spewing off at the mouth. Thanks for everything and good luck.

A: Cliff Christl - I'm not sure if I should interpret that as brutal honesty or otherwise. But I guess it doesn't matter; it's worth posting.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: RH of TT - Cliff- So long. It can't be easy leaving after a long career. My question is this. Reading the article on McCarthy on Favre, he spoke on the fact that he had max protection a lot to help the O-line. Did this fact actually make the line seem better than it was and if so will this same group of players be better this year so the max protect calls won't have to happen. I wonder if the line wasn't as good as most people assumed.

A: Cliff Christl - Good question. With Favre, it's tough to get a reading on their offensive line, even back when they had Rivera, Wahle, etc. Favre gets rid of the ball so quickly that it's almost impossible to sack him without a blindside blitz or a complete breakdown. And even then, the Packers kept in tight ends and backs to help last year because they had to. I just don't think Colledge and Spitz were experienced enough or strong enough to hold people out for any length of time. Plus, Moll played a lot at tackle. So all that max protection was done to help those rookie linemen. But what you had to like about them was that they had some talent, some toughness and they kept getting better. The key is: Will they continue to get better? There are no guarantees, but I'd be surprised if Spitz and Colledge don't become good players. And that's all they have to be. The Packers haven't had a great offensive lineman in almost 30 years. Gale Gillingham was the last. But they've had a lot of good ones and some good lines. And that's all most teams have. I remember the Ravens had Jonathan Ogden and the Rams had Pace. But I don't think there has been a Super Bowl winner since maybe Dallas in the early '90s that had a dominant line.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Bill Mueller of Egg Harbor, Wisconsin - It seems like yesterday myself, when as a high school history teacher, I had a bright outspoken sophomore at Green Bay East High. The Greeks, Romans and Men of Troy couldn't hold your interest, but in 1962 - 63, George Wallace and Charles "Sonny" Liston did. One of the best sporting events we were part of was when the East High varsity basketball team fell to the squad made up of players who were cut. As the winning coach of that sqaud, I never forgot how David beat Golliath, and I'm glad cliff, the leading scorer of that game never did either. As a person who has overcome many odds and succeeded, what's your best David versus Golliath sporting event that you covered in you career? P.S. Your honesty and candor is always appreciated, so I'm changing you grade from a "C" minus to a "B" plus. Good luck, long live Chuck Taylor basketball shoes.

A: Cliff Christl - One of the few teachers who liked me! First I want to make something clear, Sonny Liston was my high school sports idol. I thought he was as tough as they come and was invincible. The reference to George Wallace stems from when Wallace visted Green Bay in '63 or '64. He was a racist and I hated everything he stood for. So I went down to the old library or courthouse looking for fights the night Wallace spoke -- may have found some, too, as I recall -- and that's the story behind Mr. Mueller's reference. I want to make that clear. Anyway, as for your question: I thought Loyola beating Cincinnati in the '63 NCAA basketball finals was a victory for a David over Goliath. I know everybody makes a big deal about the Texas Western victory in '66, but, as I recall, Loyola had three black starters and I thought people made a bigger deal of that game at the time. Some might say the 1980 U.S. Olympic Hockey victory, but the '60 victory at Squaw Valley was a bigger deal to me, probably because I was just a kid. Also, that team had some amateur players from Green Bay on it. I think the Jets' victory was the biggest shocker in Super Bowl history. But if there's a great David vs. Goliath story in pro football, it might be the 1929 Packers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Graveyard Garrett of Somewhere in New Mexico - Hi Cliff. Thanks for keeping my legend alive. Do you think that last season was a fluke for Bubba Franks or will he continue to decline as a player? Enjoy your retirement.

A: Cliff Christl - Franks was never anything more than a good player, although a tier or two above Graveyard. Last year, he was less than that. He works hard and maybe he can revive his career for a year or two. But he's also 29 years old and certainly not a great athlete. That's about the age where players like that lose it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Bob of Milwaukee - Hi Cliff, Best wishes in the future. Do you think the "points chart" related to draft picks is a detriment to the league? I know if I was a GM and have three players rated the same and three equal need areas, I'd rather trade down a couple of spots for SOMETHING even if it doesn't match the so-called value of the chart. Teams seem too freightened to trade up thinking they will be massacred by not getting enough points. This seems to take the human element (and some good old fun) out of the draft.

A: Cliff Christl - Remember, teams are on the clock when they're drafting. I'm sure that's why someone devised the chart, just to be prepared and to have some sense of what picks were worth. I see nothing wrong with it. It follows the philosophy of the people in the league. The chart is heavily weighted on the side of the top few picks. That's normally where you draft your key playmakers. So teams are going to be reluctant to trade those picks anyway. Thereafter, there certainly is no shortage of trades from late in the first round until the end of the draft.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Scott Blount of Sioux Falls - Thanks for taking my question Cliff, I have always enjoyed your straight forward approach when you evaluate players and the game. You will be missed. You often talk about how special players, those with the ability to make a difference in the game, seem to really stand out at practice, camp etc. My question is as folows; How did the brass in Atlanta miss it so badly on Brett Favre? Did he not jump out as a special talent, even as a rookie, when he was in Atlanta? To your knowledge were there scouts down there who thought he was someone special but were over ruled by the coaching staff? Has the process of evaluation refined itself over the years to the point where that sort of blunder couldn't happen again? Secondly, was it apparent in camp that first year that Favre was a special player and did he jump out as that kind of special talent? I've always been curious how the Packers got so lucky and more importantly how Packer fans got so lucky.

A: Cliff Christl - Great question. Because great players generally do just jump out at practice. I've seen maybe a handful on the Packers' practice field over 30 some years. What about Favre? Ken Herock, the personnel guy down there who later worked under Wolf in Green Bay, told me that he still liked Favre's potential, but that Jerry Glanville wanted him gone. I wasn't there; I don't know. I know this. In his first camp, I thought his arm strength and physical presence just jumped out. But I also thought he might just be another Bobby Douglass, who spent some time in Green Bay after his years with the Bears. Douglass, too, stood out on a practice field. He was an outstanding athlete and had a cannon for an arm, but I've heard he wasn't too bright and he never polished his passing skills. He never knew where the ball was going. As I recall, Favre was really wild for only a few practices and then he just kept getting better. He was able to polish all that untapped potential. If you've ever played pick-up basketball, maybe you can relate to this. Sometimes you'll see a player with tremendous talent who just plays out of control, so they're no better than the average guys in the gym, maybe even worse. And I think most of those players never refine their game and never live up to their potential. But some do and become really special. I think Favre maybe fell in that class.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Lennie Durow of San Diego - Cliff: Thanks for all the years of quality reporting. Although I believe this is a young mans game I was a bit surprised by your blog on Henderson/Leach yesterday. I've always heard that Henderson was such a great leader on special teams and in the locker room. Wouldn't it be wise to keep that presence on the team at a position that is lower paid and not as much for performance factor? Further, we did have two at that position and it would appear that Henderson wouldn't have received many offensive snaps if his counterpart was injured. It would appear that teams need a positive veteran presence more than ever. e.g. Pacman Jones. Couldn't that have been some of the reasons for keeping him around so long. It doesn't appear that TT is "sentimental" in keeping aging players.

A: Cliff Christl - I remember Ron Wolf once dismissing a question I raised about Reggie White's contributions as a leader. Wolf told me: That's what you hire coaches for, to be your leaders.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: mike of wayne - Cliff - Mike McCarthy was quoted the other day as saying that the Packers are counting on Robert Ferguson to compete for the No. 2 or 3 wide receiver job. To me, this is the ultimate example of holding on to a guy who can't play and/or settling for mediocrity. What gives? Do MM and TT honestly expect to score points relying on stiffs like Herron, Fergy and Franks? Thanks for all your great work and best of luck!

A: Cliff Christl - I don't get it either. I don't see what they see in Ferguson. Plus, he's always hurt. Coaches who bank on players like that usually don't last long.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Michael Newalu of Kaneohe, HI - After reading your blog entry on the lesson to be learned from allowing a promising young player to slip away so that an older sentimental favorite can be retained, I wonder if the much more important position you allude to in the final statement could be quarterback? Was the lesson as it pertains to Aaron Rodgers sitting while Brett Favre rides off into the sunset on your mind as you made that statement? Or does it even matter since quarterback is the most important position on the field and Rodgers can't beat out Favre anyway? BTW, I will strongly miss your training camp blog. It was a staple of my summer. Enjoy your retirement, Cliff.

A: Cliff Christl - Good question. Favre is certainly on the downside. But maybe Rodgers is one of those quarterbacks who needs to sit on the bench for a few years. Maybe if he would have played earlier, his confidence would have been shot by now. And Favre has kept the Packers competitive. Is that a good thing or would they have been better off finishing 2-14 a couple years in a row? There are grounds for making that argument. But I also think the quarterback position falls into a different category. When I say it's a young man's game, it is, but at every position other than quarterback.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Robert of Orange, CA - Hi Cliff, Thank you for the great chats. I know you prize accuracy in reporting, so forgive me one quibble. In your last article you noted that Tom Braatz's "last draft" included Tony Bennett, Bryce Paup, etc. I'm guessing if that had been the case Braatz would not have been fired. His LAST draft actually included the likes of the immortals Vinnie Clark, Chuck Webb (injured when drafted), and Esera Tuaolo (now famous for other reasons). Quite a dud. Speaking of the drafts, I support everything TT is doing to build on youth BUT I think his administration may be doomed by one thing--the failure to risk big by trading up TWO SPOTS to draft Vince Young. It would have cost a lot, but it also would have meant the Packers could have then traded Aaron Rodgers (or even Favre for that matter)while he still had more value than he appears to now after another mediocre pre-season performance.

A: Cliff Christl - You're right. I regret the mistake. There are no excuses. As for the Packers not trading up to get Young, you might be right. But do we know that Tennessee would have traded the pick? What did the Packers have to offer?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Stephen Doncov of Trenton, MI - Cliff, Well, this is the last chat and I finally made time to make it to one. My question is this, do you think Green Bay will ever become a big city? If so, do you think that would negatively impact the Packers. Enjoy retirement! Cheers mate!

A: Cliff Christl - No. The migration in this country is to South, isn't it? Besides, who would want to live in a city where the downtown is mostly coal piles and parking lots. I'm being a little harsh there, but I don't see the immediate Green Bay area ever growing to that extent. Then again, it probably won't be long before the Fox River Valley is connected from Green Bay to Appleton to Oshkosh and maybe even to Fond du Lac. There isn't much open space left.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: James of South Bend - Cliff, This may be a tough question but do you think Brett Favre would have been an even better QB if he weren't such a gambler or would he not have been nearly as good a player if not for his confidense and risk taking? Packer fans bite thier lip all the time when Brett forces wild picks but its also produced many of memorable plays and touchdowns. What do you think?

A: Cliff Christl - I don't think he would have been the same player if he had tried to play a more conventional style. He wasn't a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. I think they both threw with better touch and probably better accuracy from the pocket, especially on the deep ball. Favre's game was making big plays out of broken plays. No quarterback was ever better at it. That's why I don't think he could lead a team to victory in the Super Bowl anymore. He no longer does what he did best.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Sheetu of Nashville, TN - Lets say Calvin Johnson is everythign he's hyped to be. Lets say the Packers pull a Mike Ditka, trading all of their draft picks, and maybe some next year to move up and Take calvin johnson. What would you think of the move in regards to both your playmaker theory and your building through the draft theory?

A: Cliff Christl - If the Packers were sure about Rodgers, it might make sense. In fact, I think it would make a lot of sense. But what if Rodgers isn't the answer? Then you might have a James Lofton with a David Whitehurst throwing to him. Where would that get you?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Ken of Farley - Did you ever meet Vince Lombardi.

A: Cliff Christl - Yes. At the first annual Pro Football Writers of Wisconsin dinner in Milwaukee in 1969. I was a college student and got his autograph on the program. It has a special place in my office, next to my "Can Dan" bumper sticker.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Ryan of Decatur - Any relation to 1st Lieutenant Edward C. Christl Jr. of Christl Arena in West Point? I know you love Army-Navy games.

A: Cliff Christl - No. I was the only surviving son of a war veteran. My dad, Clifford H. Christl, fought in the Battle of the Bulge and died shortly after the war after being exposed to some toxic chemicals. I was 13 days old. There aren't many Christls left, at least from my family. My dad was adopted and an only child. But I tip my hat to Edward C. Christl. And, yes, the Army-Navy game is my favorite sporting event.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Rick Cina of Morrisonville, IL - Based on some of the comments on your age of late, I presume you were probably born around and about 1947. In a January chat, you mentioned you were a Bears fan for a specific time period: from ages 9 to 12. Your stated reason for liking the Bears in the late '50s? Because you once got all the players' autographs, and because "they were winners then. As a kid, I only liked winners." Looking into it, though, the Bears weren't necessarily known to be a particularly good team back then. In 1956, they finished first in the West for the first time in 11 years, but got embarrassed in the championship game to the tune of 47-7. From '57-'60, which were likely around your 9 to 12 age range, the Bears finished 5-7, 8-4, 8-4, and 5-6-1, failing to reach the playoffs each of those years. And what happened to you at age 13? Because that was about the time ('61) the Packers started winning championships; Green Bay won 5 championships during your impressionable teenage years. Didn't you attend several games at Lambeau in the '60s? Did you go strictly as a football fan, or as a fan of the opposing team? Wouldn't it have been difficult for someone your age to *not* be at least a moderate fan of the team during that time, especially since the Packers were winners then (and you've said that you only liked winners)? How did you manage to stubbornly and strategically avoid developing an affinity for your own state's professional football team as a young person? And what would be the primary reason why you couldn't find it within yourself to like or favor those Lombardi teams like you did Driscoll's/Halas' teams from ages 9 through 12?

A: Cliff Christl - You know your history. But keep in mind it was a different world back then. There were no national games of the week on TV. Your local game was the only game that you could watch. So at age eight or nine, I probably hadn't seen most of the teams in the Eastern Conference play. My little world probably was limited to the Packers and Bears. And the Bears always beat the Packers, so that's probably why I liked them. But I became a Packer fan when they started winning under Lombardi. Never a gung-ho fan, though. I followed the game. But I probably knew the Boston Patriots' roster as well the Packers' roster and the Patriots were in the other league. Butch Songin. Remember him? He was the quarterback of the Patriots and looked about 50 years old. Tom Yewcic, as I recall, was the backup. Bob Dee, Larry Eisenhauer and Houston Antwine were three of their defensive linemen. That's the kind of fan I was. I studied rosters and rated players, even though I didn't know what I was doing. Jim Nance. He was a bulldozer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Russell Brand of Milwaukee - Cliff: I have followed your writing on the Packers for years and have always considered you a serious writer, and dare may I say, an Artist....So here is my question. Why are you retiring? My observations suggest that most Artists in fact do not retire...they die on stage. Think of all those old blues players, the Rolling Stones etc. Best of luck and health to you and yours. Thanks for the good work.

A: Cliff Christl - I guess because I'm able to do it financially and wouldn't most people rather not work than work? But I'll stay active. Maybe write some books. And this way, I'll be able to do some things I haven't been able to do because of my work schedule. No. 1, spend a lot more time with my grandson in the Twin Cities. No. 2, see some sporting events that I've always wanted to see: Harvard-Yale at Yale Stadium; the Grey Cup; the Kentucky Derby; a Canton-Massillon high school football game; an Army game at Michie Stadium, for starters. And I'll be able to take off to Sturgis, Daytona and other places on my bike after camp starts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Ben G. of Tulsa, OK - Cliff, what will happen to your Hall of Fame ballot after you retire? I remember reading SI's Peter King letting us in on how well done your presentations were to the committee. Your retirement will leave a sizable gap for others to fill. Not only for Packer fans, but football fans nationwide. Thanks for giving us your strongest years.

A: Cliff Christl - Joe Horrigan of the Hall of Fame asked me last week to stay on the committee. The by-laws allow the Hall to retain a committee member for up to two years even if he isn't actively covering the game. But I told Joe that after the dust settled, I may look to do something that would meet the qualifications of "actively" covering the game. At the same time, I told him I would never do anything to compromise the credibility of the committee. So if I felt that was the case, I would step down immediately.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Mad Dog of East Texas - Cliff- I thought about trying to take it easy on you since you are riding off into the sunset (probably on Kawasaki that you bought a Harley Davidson conversion kit for) and then I thought I wouldn't want you leaving this job with a false sense of security that you actually knew half as much as you thought you did. You more than most people label a guy right away and whatever the label is, that is how you view that player for the rest of his career. Kampman for example is just a "try hard guy" and always will be in your eyes although you now credit his work ethic, but you weren't impressed until last year with him overall, but he isn't a try hard guy. He'd start for every single NFL team right now. So my question is is there anybody on the Packer roster right now that falls in the Cliff Christl " He is just a try hard guy" that could emerge as a bonafide upper echelon player. To me it seemed like a couple of receivers stepped up out of nowhere and flashed some ability and guts in making the big crucual play. I also think this retirement stuff is a cynical attemt for you to say "Look Matt Millen outlasted my career even, therefore I was right and everyone else was wrong in that Millen rocks". Of course Ford is willing to lose billions a year on cars instead of changing there outlook, so it's not surprising theuy keep the edsel of GM's in charge. You and Randy Wright can discuss this over a beer tonight when you are done with this chat. So long. I'll concede that you are a decent writer and not a try hard guy, but your thought process gets in the way at times. Hope I helped straighten you out.

A: Cliff Christl - What's that new TV show: "Are you as smart as a fifth-grader?" I know you resist buying into the playmaker theory even though every GM and coach in the game subscribes to it. Maybe they should start a new show for you. "Are you as smart as a first-grader?" Isn't that when most people learn that the team that gets the first pick usually wins? I think if you'd look back, I was one of the first to write that Kampman was a much better player than advertised. In fact, there was a time when a lot of people on this chat wouldn't buy that. But Kampman has a ceiling. He's not a dominant player. He's not Jason Taylor or Julius Peppers. Teams aren't going to game plan around him. If you were as smart as a first-grader, you wouldn't pick him first on the playground. Are there players on the Packers' roster who could become special some day? Maybe A.J. Hawk and I'm not sold on that. Anyway, I enjoy your questions, your sarcasm, your rabid bite. And I'm glad that not all my enemies are disappearing. My favorite lead ever on the sports pages was written by Dick Young, the crusty old New York writer, after Thurman Munson was killed in a plane crash. And it read something like this: "I didn't like Thurman Munson when he was alive and I don't like him any better now that he's dead." Thanks for sticking to your guns and not liking me any better today than before I decided to retire.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Buzz Opick of Granger, Indiana - What a class act you have been! Man-oh-man, are we going to miss your Packer Plus writings. You know, from my perspective, two of the best writers are located in Wisconsin, Cliff Christl and Peter Egan- it definately must be something in the water. Mr. Christl, you are an erudite sportswriter- your chrisp (and sparse) writing style that conveys a lot with minimum verbage will be missed. Your chats, where you put pins in the balloons of all the Monday morning "general managers" will also be missed. Tell me, your working on a book or two. Be well my friend!!!

A: Cliff Christl - Buzz, thank you so much for the kind words. I've truly been overwhelmed and humbled by the feedback that I've received since I wrote on a chat that I planned to retire. I feel like I've almost gotten to know some of you personally. You're great fans, for the most part, of your football team and you've been great participants in these chats. Good night and the best to you.

[Bretsky]

THANKS FOR POSTING

[woodbuck27]

We've read alot of his chats.

Interesting comments on Favre and the OL and sacking him and Bubba Franks.