I kind of wish we ran a 3-4 discussion

[Partial]

I was just thinking about this today while in the shower. We've got a lot of guys that would do fairly well in a 3-4.

We have excellent corners that can handle man-to-man responsibilities. This would bode very well for us in a pressure-oriented defense.

Nick Barnett is an excellent coverage linebacker, and AJ Hawk is a very sure tackler. These two would be a great tandom on the inside of a 3-4, especially if they could both bulk up a bit.

Corey Williams and Cullen Jenkins would be some of the better 3-4 ends in the league I foresee. Both are big and strong enough, and they have shown to be two-way players than can handle the run and the pass.

Kampman really doesn't fit in unless he bulks up. Trade him for a first round pick and land a 3-4 OLB 4-3 DE rush end?

Not too sure if Pickett is big enough to play Nose Tackle. My thoughts are probably not, but maybe.

Poppinga would be maximized by having him put a hand down and rush the quarterback. Being a rush OLB would allow him to do this and minimize his coverage responsibilities.

What are your thoughts? Lets have a good, engaging discussion.

[Fosco33]

We hammered this last March or April I think... I'll have to find the post.

[Partial]

We hammered this last March or April I think... I'll have to find the post.

I know we did. I am sure I posted it, as well. However, things have changed in the past year and we know what we have quite a bit better now.

[pbmax]

I don't think Barnett could handle a guard regularly as an ILB in a 3-4. He would need to play outside. Hawk, might be better suited, but I think he would struggle as well against the run and uncovered guards. Poppinga might do a good impersonation of a rush OLB.

[Lurker64]

If a prowbowl nosetackle would drop into our lap somehow, I would support it. But you really need an amazing rock in the middle of the line there, and we don't have one. The 3-4 without a solid NT against a good line is an ugly thing to watch.

[retailguy]

If a prowbowl nosetackle would drop into our lap somehow, I would support it. But you really need an amazing rock in the middle of the line there, and we don't have one. The 3-4 without a solid NT against a good line is an ugly thing to watch.

agreed. plus we spent the past 4 years trying to find 4-3 defensive tackles and Ends, probably not the best time to walk away from that...

a good NT, then maybe some downs from the 3-4, but why? don't we have other issues, Partial?

[Partial]

If a prowbowl nosetackle would drop into our lap somehow, I would support it. But you really need an amazing rock in the middle of the line there, and we don't have one. The 3-4 without a solid NT against a good line is an ugly thing to watch.

The Nose has just gotta hold up against a center and guard and they will get accolade. They don't have to be an outstanding athlete just lengthy and strong.

The key is leverage.

[Partial]

If a prowbowl nosetackle would drop into our lap somehow, I would support it. But you really need an amazing rock in the middle of the line there, and we don't have one. The 3-4 without a solid NT against a good line is an ugly thing to watch.

agreed. plus we spent the past 4 years trying to find 4-3 defensive tackles and Ends, probably not the best time to walk away from that...

a good NT, then maybe some downs from the 3-4, but why? don't we have other issues, Partial?

We have a good 4-3 end in Kampman, and someone who could be equally effective in either system in Jenkins and Williams.

I feel like in a 3-4 we could easily solidify our pass rush and add a safety and we'd have an excellent defense. As Wist has stated a bunch, with a pressure oriented defense you can be successful with out as many pro bowl players.

Perhaps I am just silly but I don't see great players like Anthony Spencer and Jarvis Moss having a place on this team right now, when they both look like they could step in and be good to great players on a 3-4 team.

Barnett wouldn't be asked to take on guards very often as I feel they could effectively drop him into a zone. Perhaps they could play him outside and have Hodge play inside and bulk up a bit.

[Merlin]

I can only name one player in our defense that would be suited for the 3-4, Picket. Our LB's, speedy as they are aren't big enough (that includes Hawk). None of them (and most in the NFL) can fight off an offensive lineman and that is key to success. Jenkins has the size on the DL but in a three man rush, he will get eaten up. Al Harris isn't fast enough to play solid man to man without help over the top because he plays a tough bump and run and if he doesn't get the bump, the WR has the upper hand. Neither of our safeties play good man to man. Woodson is about it on the vertical routesl but outside of that, our secondary would be in shambles.

We aren't the Dallas Cowboys, we don't make rash decisions. The Packers ran a 3-4 years ago and they sucked at it. Outside of the Ravens (not sure they run it anymore), I can't name one team that has a dominant defense that runs a 3-4. Also, we aren't in the AFC. Let's put our progression back another few years so we can run a 3-4, um no.

In case you didn't know, the Packers do have a 3-4 scheme but you rarely ever see that formation. If they can't run the base defense right, you won't see much but that and a 4-2-5 nickel.

[Partial]

Not to continue our feud, but that comment is really dumb because the one guy I think we can all agree doesn't have a true position is Pickett. He is a solid player, but I don't think he has the height or the leverage to play the nose.

Williams and Jenkins are prototype 3-4 ends. Whomever dreamed up the 3-4 dreamed up Corey Williams and Cullen Jenkins to be his ends.

The Patriots have a good defense. The Steelers have historically had a great defense. Miami had a very, very solid defense in which they often ran a 3-4. The Chargers had the 2nd best defense in the league. The Cowboys had a very, very good defense as well.

[KYPack]

snip
We aren't the Dallas Cowboys, we don't make rash decisions. The Packers ran a 3-4 years ago and they sucked at it. Outside of the Ravens (not sure they run it anymore), I can't name one team that has a dominant defense that runs a 3-4. Also, we aren't in the AFC. Let's put our progression back another few years so we can run a 3-4, um no.

snip

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That'd be San Diego. Possibly the best D in the league.

We killed this horse before. People brought it up bc they wanted Hodge on the field. We need several new people to run a 3-4. We only need a safety to run an effective 4-3.

[Zool]

A safety, a nickle DB, and maybe an upgrade at Sam. I'm not convinced that Pop wont be at least servicable if he has safety help in the seam, but and upgrade is always desireable at any position.

[wist43]

I can only name one player in our defense that would be suited for the 3-4, Picket. Our LB's, speedy as they are aren't big enough (that includes Hawk). None of them (and most in the NFL) can fight off an offensive lineman and that is key to success. Jenkins has the size on the DL but in a three man rush, he will get eaten up. Al Harris isn't fast enough to play solid man to man without help over the top because he plays a tough bump and run and if he doesn't get the bump, the WR has the upper hand. Neither of our safeties play good man to man. Woodson is about it on the vertical routesl but outside of that, our secondary would be in shambles.

We aren't the Dallas Cowboys, we don't make rash decisions. The Packers ran a 3-4 years ago and they sucked at it. Outside of the Ravens (not sure they run it anymore), I can't name one team that has a dominant defense that runs a 3-4. Also, we aren't in the AFC. Let's put our progression back another few years so we can run a 3-4, um no.

In case you didn't know, the Packers do have a 3-4 scheme but you rarely ever see that formation. If they can't run the base defense right, you won't see much but that and a 4-2-5 nickel.

We did argue this to death last year; but to refresh...

My advocacy of the 3-4 is multifaceted - 1st off I think you can build a dominate unit more easily b/c your playmakers in a 3-4 are generally your LB's. LB's are cheaper, and easier to come by than are Reggie White type DE's.

Also, it is much easier to show mulitple fronts, and blitz or drop from those fronts, in combination with disguising coverages behind, makes preparing for a truly well coordinated 3-4 very, very difficult. It can ultimately have the effect of teams scaling back their gameday playbook to ensure that all of the potential blitzers are accounted for.

The 3-4 that the Packers ran back in the 80's was fairly static, and during the years that Tim Harris was there, you could actually argue that it was, in fact, more of a 4-3 than a 3-4 b/c Harris played as a rush end on almost every snap, and was generally a fish out of water when in coverage or in space.

Those things said, the Packers are utterly lacking in the personel necessary to run a 3-4. They do have two DL that could serve as adequate 3-4 ends (Jenkins and Williams)... I also think Kampman could play end in the 3-4, but probably not as effectively as the other two.

Barnett and Hawk could also play inside in a 3-4... Poppinga could possibly man one of the outside positions, but I would certainly want an upgrade there... There is no other LB's on the roster that could fill the outside slots. OLB's have to be the playmakers/pass rushers in the scheme. The Packers really have none.

And, of course, they don't have a true NT... they'd also need a LaRon Landry type S.... not to mention an entirely new defensive coaching staff.

Don't see moving to a 3-4 as even the remotest possibility until there is a new regime in town... that'll be many years down the line.

[Merlin]

My point is that we built our defense around a 4-3. Pickett can be a true nose tackle, he is huge and occupies space. You don't need to be "tall", you need to be a butterball and he is that with speed. Jenkins (modified DT) and Williams (both a little too fast for DE in a 3-4) are best suited to the 4-3 where they can be used in all positions. Your DL in a 3-4 need to be occupiers, not speed rushers. They need to take on 5 linemen to free up the almost always smaller LB's who can't shake off the linemen. They also need to be able to drop into coverage and as quick as Jenkins and Williams are, I don't want to see them back peddling into coverage, they will land on their fat asses. Barnett and Hawk would both be best suited to the outside were one could argue that their lateral speed and coverage skills can be used. You need to rock heads in the middle for the run and middle zone coverage. When you run a 3-4 you need to have the right people, we don't.

As far as a comment being "dumb", you may want to try and use the words "I disagree" instead. You have your opinion and I have mine. It's nice to see that you still don't have that respect thing down.